On track with or without PSM - Porsche Stability Managemnt

Personally left everything on in the 996 Turbo.
I had just started averaging the 8 min(Nurburgring) mark and only just felt a obtrusion now and again.
I wouldn't turn it off until it was spoiling my fun (which it never did)

I see a lot of "accidents" at the Ring and can only assume that many happen due to lack of talent without driver aids on.

Id say keep it on until its obtrusive, then switch it off if you feel confident you can handle a big slide...you may regret it if you don't IMHO

I think the ring is a bit different as it is more like a fast country road. I think most aids will be relatively less intrusive there anyway....and if its is wet then yes, leave everything on!

LaSource said:

I think the ring is a bit different as it is more like a fast country road. I think most aids will be relatively less intrusive there anyway....and if its is wet then yes, leave everything on!

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Tend to agree with this. I've never been to the 'ring but would definitely leave it on there. For UK circuits it is pretty much always off. In 2015 I did a Goodwood day and the intrusion with PSM on was very evident, in fact it was active on every corner bar the chicane. Mine is no GT car though...

In my last track car I'd pull the fuse for the ABS as it was too intrusive. Pulling it out, the lap time dropped by 1 sec immediately on a circuit i was very familiar with. Plenty of run off so risk quite low.
The Porsche system is far less intrusive and I leave it on. I use the theory that if it lights up then I've not been smooth enough and it's a safety net. I've only driven Oulton and Bedford(this was years ago). Oulton barriers are a little too close for me still as I've only driven it 3 or 4 times.

Pip1968 said:

Senoj said:

I really dont think it lessens driver involvement unless beeing backwards in the armco makes you feel more invloved :floor:

Its an optional driver aid, same as decent tyre or decent suspension or brakes.

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We will agree to disagree here Senoj. Tyres and suspension are passive 'intervention' (Aside from the active dampers PASM which will again lesson the involvement) whilst TC is an active intervention. It affects your input to correct the situation when it deems things are going 'wrong'. If not why have the ability to turn it off on GTs???

Why drive at all on track if you dont want the risk of ending up in the armco. Why do people drive with Cup tyres and risk aquaplaning or ending up in the armco (weather is never a certainty). Why drive the Nordschleife when on most of the track there is little run off - if you are risk averse then stick to disused flat runways in the dry.

The whole point for many is driver involvement. Man and machine verses track. No aids, good tyres and geometry/suspension set up. The easy option is all weather tyres in an 'auto' GT3 RS with all systems 'ON' but I dont think you can say that this is the most involving/interactive solution on the basis that you may not end up in the armco.

I would argue that the more aids the less the driver skill. Already you see the younger generation who think they are driving gods just because they are able to lap a track quickly in a safety enhanced car (TC/PASM, rear parking camera/sensors, auto wipers, automatic headlights, crossing a white line warning system et cetera et cetera). Take away those items are they are out of their comfort zone. They have become lazy and cosseted by these aids.

Don't get me wrong Senoj each to their own and you are probably 'lucky' in that you have experisnced the pre 'safety' car era although prefer aids to involvment and what you perceive as increased risk.

I think the 996 GT3/RS are the last of the fully interactive and most driver involving Porsche.

Pip
Ps I did text you (obviously and old number) and send a PM to be able to get you that drink. I also popped into the Dorint bar on Sunday but did not see you. I hope that you had a 'safe' couple of days on track.

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Not really wishing to get into one of those back and forth internet forum thing so lets keep it as discussion :thumb: and not go all PH. To be clear im not saying you are ....just I dont recall saying i prefer aids to involvement so maybe you're confusing some comments? I said i turn it off because i dont like the interference. My chest is way too hairy to say anything else. On the road i leave it on, in the wet i normally stay in the garage..this is on my 997.2RS.

Tyres and suspension are an 'aid" in exactly the same way any sort of Traction control or stability. In my humble opinion. If TC stops your rear wheels spinning up when you don't want them to then so do grippy tyres and a decent suspension. Stability control is doing the same thing, whats the difference? As model generations evelove the ability of the car improves. I would have just as much fun on the nordschleife if the barriers were made of cotton wool instead of €60/metre Armco...

I was lucky enough to get a pax in a new 991 RS at the ring. Very competent driver who left all the stuff on. Im not exaggerating when i say this man was massively invloved in getting that car around the lap, my eyes where on stalks and he was having a huge amount of fun with Stuggart's newest adrenaline pump .

You'd be more "involved" running on crossply tyres (watch Goodwood revival TT race if you dont believe me so does that make your cup 2's and KW susp a driver aid...i think it might. We dont want computer intervention to aid grip but we do want it when that computer helps design a tyre that aids grip..

I accept my point is somewhat obtuse but you'll have to humour me here

Nxi very kindly let me have a go in his 996 at the ring and even though it doesn't have TC its such a well set up and grippy weapon it doesn't really need it. If the right one at the right price came along id buy it. It does get a little old when owners talk them up as the ultimate because they are sans 'driver aids" . They are great cars but not really because of that and therefore subsequent models are no less involving, because of that.

Last ring trip wasn't as 'safe" an experience as I'd like but thats down to a mechanical issue (e92) which has been several months in the making and solving....one for the bar if we ever manage to hook up!



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