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Has the Air-Cooled Porsche become a Market Commodity?

Luddite

Indianapolis
Joined
18 Dec 2018
Messages
2,370
Seems to me that air cooled Porsches are traded more as a market commodity as might be bitcoin and non-physical gold, etc. etc. etc.. At least by investing in an air cooled Porsche, you have bought into what might be referred to as durable goods, and not something that only exists in digital or paper form...?

For some years now it seems most air cooled Porsches live the life of garage queens, part of which is likely to be related to their owners changing priorities with the passage of time, which seem likely to have evolved into protecting their investment, as opposed to driving their Porsches as they once may have done, perhaps in more recent years been ever more sucked into the convenience, comfort, and safety which more modern vehicles provide..?

I suspect here will be those who still have great enthusiasm for the marque and are fortunate to have the wherewithal to buy a modern Porsche to keep their old air cooled investment company in the garage, one to drive and one to Polish perhaps...?

If any of the above might ring true to any degree, then air-cooled Porsches may indeed shift ever more towards the asset classification of durable goods, as opposed to being greatly valued as the sports cars they once were, and if younger market investors take that on board, then in time it seems even less likely that we might have the opportunity to see an old Porsche out on the road..?

I suspect it may have been baby boomer owners that afforded me the opportunity to see the occasional air cooled as they took to the road to risk a rare run in the sun, or to take it to a car show, setting out their chairs to get comfortable and meet similarly aged friends, perhaps their attendance at such events reducing in number as the baby boomers begin to drop off the perch...?

I suspect newer and younger investors may in time be influenced by whatever costs might be involved in the storage general maintenance and perhaps corrosion repairs of their Porsche asset relative to other investment types..? I also expect the young investor will have at least some degree of car enthusiast tendencies and thus can derive a measure of returns, real or imagined via accolade from their peer group in the cyber or real world for as long as air cooled Porsche are generally perceived as cool or a wise investment, call it the feel good factor if you will..? In such situations, returns other than financial may have a degree of potential to justify the investment costs during the period of ownership ..?

Again if any of the above might seem a reasonable reflection on the general market influences affecting the monetary value of air-cooled Porsches as investments, then it seems from January the first this year, with the demise of the availability non-biofuels at petrol stations in the UK and EU, and that apparently no air-cooled Porsche was designed to run on biofuels, would seems to reduce their worth as sports cars to those who may wish to drive them as originally intended, even if only rarely...?

It seems to me that brand Porsche was built upon the strong foundation of simplicity of design, build quality and longevity of the Beetle, and the sports car it spawned. These basic engineering principals and continuing success in motor sport maintained the Porsche brand status even through times when the risk of self destruction of their new design water-cooled engines became almost common knowledge, add to that the number of years that it seemingly took to resolve the issue..? Despite such issues it would seem the perception of Porsche quality and status, real or imagined, maintained market share to some degree, the water cooled issues perhaps off-set to some degree with what seems like a clever "self funding" (?) marketing strategy by way of the introduction an extended guarantee scheme, which would be funded by customers paying an annual fee, those same customers being cajoled into buying O.E. parts to service and repair their Porsches,should they ever need to make any claim under the scheme..?

My guess is that the extended guarantee scheme may have worked out better financially than perhaps otherwise being forced into another flat six engine redesign, which seemed likely to risk the possible loss of a degree of brand confidence, but what do I know, just look at the VW emissions fiddling...? Sure it cost the company plenty, but I suspect the VW brand still carries credibility with folk of a certain age, though perhaps less so with their grand kids..?

Market value, hmm..? I have perhaps too often used my friends £16k purchase of his very tidy GR, 964 with black interior in 2009, which in today`s market may be valued circa £50k...? It seems kinda obvious that average family incomes over the same period of time do not in any way match the 964`s rise in monetary value, which seems to indicate to me that air cooled 911 Porsches are valued as other than just a sports car...?

Again if the above might seem in any way a reasonable assessment, air cooled Porsches have evolved into becoming viewed on balance as a market investment, tipping that balance ever further away from their value as a sports car up till now..?

As for the future... in the words of the Dylan song, the times they are a changing, and have done so in an entirely negative way for a considerable percentage of the population, and in so many areas of the entire economy. If you might be dependant to any degree on the investment value of a Porsche, as opposed to evaluating it`s possible returns as a fine old sports car, I sure hope it works for you.. :?:
 
This post was hidden away in a 993 sub-forum thread discussing the current market value of the 993 and as such would have a limited audience.

I have moved it to this sub-forum for more general discussion.

NB: The thread title is of my creation based on the theme of the post and is subject to change if Luddite prefers.
 
Do we have to read it :eek:

On a more serious note and based soley on the thread title .......No

:grin:
 
On the one hand as a 914 owner, I hope so :lol:

On the other hand I think some people buy the air cooled cars not because they are air cooled and are seen as a safe place for their money / investment but more because they have reached an age and have the disposable income to be able to afford the car they had on the bedroom wall when they were younger and couldn't afford one

Isnt the same scenario the case with fast Fords, the "old" Escorts / Capris etc are fetching huge amounts of money because those that had or wanted one back in the day can afford to have one today
:?:
 
I think it's a poor comparison with Bitcoin or other similar commodity. A closer comparison would be with art.
 
991.2GTS said:
I think it's a poor comparison with Bitcoin or other similar commodity. A closer comparison would be with art.

A 993 is art. :lol:
 
The boat sailed on 'investment' pieces a few years back. True they may hold/negligible increase but not the steller increases seen 2010-2019.

Now I'm all for polishing a turd, but to keep a car in the garage to not drive it but polish it and on cold winters evenings perhaps take out the space saver tyre and marvel at how it inflates and deflates without ending up like an octogenarian's ball sac, doesn't make sense except to those protecting their investment having seen the large price increase.

The 'perceived' value of these cars compared to what the owner originally paid by default makes it counter-productive to drive it on the road for fear of shaking like a shitting dog everytime it rains :roll:

So riddle me this. You can buy a modernised terraced house for £70k and realise a rent of near £500pcm. What would you choose :dont know: My chum chose the latter with 11 houses now acquired over the last 5yrs hence he only has a Panamera on his drive :roll:
 
Zingari said:
The boat sailed on 'investment' pieces a few years back. True they may hold/negligible increase but not the steller increases seen 2010-2019.

Now I'm all for polishing a turd, but to keep a car in the garage to not drive it but polish it and on cold winters evenings perhaps take out the space saver tyre and marvel at how it inflates and deflates without ending up like an octogenarian's ball sac, doesn't make sense except to those protecting their investment having seen the large price increase.

The 'perceived' value of these cars compared to what the owner originally paid by default makes it counter-productive to drive it on the road for fear of shaking like a shitting dog everytime it rains :roll:

So riddle me this. You can buy a modernised terraced house for £70k and realise a rent of near £500pcm. What would you choose :dont know: My chum chose the latter with 11 houses now acquired over the last 5yrs hence he only has a Panamera on his drive :roll:

Remind me why you have a GT4 and MG sat in the garage :grin:
 
Just caught Jay Emm`s, rant on MARKET evaluation....

https://youtu.be/WuRU-c-Ph3Y

Market forces can go both ways and it seems Porsche may be pushing their luck a tad in what seems logical to be very difficult times if Jay Emm may be in any way correct in his thinking, and if he is I suspect there could be a trickle down factor worth considering for those with investment prioritisation relative to their Porsche ownership.. :?:
 
Wow, I got bored / annoyed by the "presentation" after 30 seconds :eek: ........I skipped a bit (well most of it) and know there is nothing new here thats not been said a million times before :roll:
 
Luddite said:
......and if he is I suspect there could be a trickle down factor worth considering for those with investment prioritisation relative to their Porsche ownership.. :?:

I'm not sure that this is something that can be inferred from anything in that Jay Emm video.

The 'GT market' that he is speaking about is specific to recent Porsches and the short term investments that this has allowed speculators to deal in.

It's the recent 'supply exceeding demand' rationale that he is anticipating will squash this opportunism and nothing that happens in that market should affect the market for older and/or rarer Porsches or indeed the market for mainstream models.

Older and/or rarer models will always be rare so demand will always be there. The market for classic cars of all marques may change and values may fall but not for any of the reasons that Jay Emm has mentioned in this video.
 
Jay Emm is a plonker.

I wouldn't trust him to tell me the time. And no I haven't watched the video as I have no interest in values talk. :sleepy:
 
Thankfully, I enjoyed the 964 and 993 (manual Coupé) as daily drivers and put miles on them without any concern for years before anyone would dream of threads like this.

Porsche cars make great daily drivers, even a Mk1 GT3 was fine as a daily.

All the talk of investment and low miles is really sad.

Cars are generally not great investments, the fun is in enjoying them.
 
What was the low point in 993 values and when did they get there?
 
Ghost said:
What was the low point in 993 values and when did they get there?

Values were at rock bottom in 2009 with sub 50k mile C2 Tips being readily available for c£23k.

I'd been following the sub-£25k 911 market (my budget) for a few months prior and went for a 996.2 instead.

I often wonder what would have been different for me if I'd gone down the air-cooled route.
 

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