Dilema

[Alex]

No.

I think the OP is comparing a full 6 pack rebuild including liners, pistone et al vs. the same but increased to 3.9

 

[gizlaroc]

No.

I think the OP is comparing a full 6 pack rebuild including liners, pistone et al vs. the same but increased to 3.9

Sure, I get that.

But I do wonder why we, I include myself in this, take an issue like this, which in this case is bore scoring on bank two and suddenly decide that we will spend another £3000 doing bank one as well, and then think, well, if we are now spending £9000, we might as well spend £11000 and bore it out (which makes more sense) and when in there I might as well replace chain guides, cam solenoids, blah blah blah.


Even Hartech put in their FAQ, point 23...

23 - Why only bank 2 suffers...


We go from spending £4-5k to spending £13-15k.

My guess is, that if someone saw a 3.6 up for sale with Hartech Bank 2 done already, they would consider that a pretty safe buy, probably add £4000 of the £5000 cost for the work to the price of the car over similar 3.6 cars with no work done yet?

Spend £13-15k and it it might add what? £6-7k?




Hopefully I'm getting my point over? I've been on the vino this afternoon.

But sometimes I do think that just sorting the actual issue makes far more sense.
Having said that, I have not driven a 3.9 996, I might do so and think £13k, or whatever it is? Is an absolute steal and worth every penny.

 

[Mark Vine]

At the age of 58 now life has taught me one thing, if you are going to do something, do it properly.
Fixing one side of the engine fixes the problem, sorted, but for how long. Based on the cost of pulling the engine out, i would be mighty bothered if in a few thousand miles the other side needs doing.
Yes its going to cost me, but to have the chance to improve an already good car, its one i am prepared to take.

 

[berni29]

Hi

Documented on here, my brothers 996.2 3.6 engine was borescored on both banks. One side worse than the other. We went for the standard Hartech 3.6 with remanufactured and coated pistons. With the engine completely stripped it really does not make sense to leave any wear items in there. His engine had done about 112k miles, so we replaced a LOT. If an engine has done 40k then maybe the decision making process is different. It all comes down to condition.

All the best

Berni

 

[Winny911]

How do they know…

Let me tell you when I was 18 I had a 998 mini full cage bucket seats etc but 998 engine and insured correctly it was written off as while queueing in traffic someone rear ended it at high speed pushing it into a stationary van in front it was a right mess and about 2’ shorter

First thing the Insurance assessor did when he came to assess the damage was crowbar the bonnet open and pull the cylinder head off to check the capacity

Good job all my mods were declared oh and by the way that was not my Insurance assessor but the one from the person who caused the accident

It happens and it might not even be your fault so don’t give them any reason to not pay out

Winny

 

[bazhart]

Just to clear up any misunderstanding - at any revs an increase in torque has the same size or proportional increase in BHP - they are not different things just different measurements of the same thing.

But it is torque that accelerates a mass - not BHP (which is only a comparative measurement not a force).

The only difference in numbers is that BHP is the torque * a constant * revs so increases with revs and this means you can get a higher BHP figure but with less torque (and higher BHP but less acceleration as well).

It is also the case that as revs rise the inlet and exhaust ports are open for less time so eventually as revs increase it becomes more difficult to entrap as much air and expel as much exhaust - so torque eventually drops off with revs and tends to be at a maximum before BHP.

With the extra capacity both torque AND BHP are higher everywhere - so if you want to drive it fast it is much faster whether you rev it to peak revs before changing gear or change up earlier. The only difference is that with a standard capacity engine you will have to wait for the acceleration to speed up until the revs rise and you don't need to with a capacity conversion.

Although fitting our exclusive higher quality wider big ends and mains etc engines will be more reliable if you do rev them out but another advantage of more mid range torque is reducing the need for high revs which wear components exponentially.

Also the Nikasil bores can withstand much more piston force without wear than Lokasil or iron.

If you want your engine to feel similar after a capacity conversion as before just rev it to peak revs in lower gears before changing up and it will feel similar but even faster.

Put simply increasing torque DOES NOT make the car slower when flat out.

Anyone doubting but serious about ordering a conversion but not sure what to choose - should arrange to come and try one out.

As if more proof were needed both in 2021 a 3.4 to 3.7 and in 2022 a 3.8 to 4.1 - won their class in the British Endurance Championship against much newer, more exotic and expensive GT cars (and in 2022 was the highest placed but oldest and least expensive Porsche in the event) both running exactly the same engines as we make for road production.

The benefit is that you cannot drive on public roads on full throttle for long (or even from a standstill or you break the maximum speed limit in seconds) but the additional torque (AND POWER) lower in the rev band enables you to drive more spiritedly without changing down all the time - if you prefer to.

Furthermore the only way to increase peak BHP is to increase the areas of all the ports, valve areas and/or timing and lift to overcome the reducing time by compensating with more flow area - but that then reduces the charge efficiency in the mid range and makes engines harder to drive on public roads. It also would mean that the already very tall gearing will feel even taller and when you do change gear the rvs will drop even more - needing a wider power band which the changes to increase peak BHP have just reduced.

So unless you can alter internal and final drive gearing (closer ratios and lower final drive ratio), increasing mid range torque will almost always make a power unit faster compared to opening out the flow areas.

Baz

 

[sim996]

How do they know…

Let me tell you when I was 18 I had a 998 mini full cage bucket seats etc but 998 engine and insured correctly it was written off as while queueing in traffic someone rear ended it at high speed pushing it into a stationary van in front it was a right mess and about 2’ shorter

First thing the Insurance assessor did when he came to assess the damage was crowbar the bonnet open and pull the cylinder head off to check the capacity

Good job all my mods were declared oh and by the way that was not my Insurance assessor but the one from the person who caused the accident

It happens and it might not even be your fault so don’t give them any reason to not pay out

Winny

You're right, all mods should be declared.

However, an Insurance assessor whipping of the cylinder head on a 996 will be so far beyond his capabilities, it would never happen.

 

[Roast Beef Racing]

At the age of 58 now life has taught me one thing, if you are going to do something, do it properly.
Fixing one side of the engine fixes the problem, sorted, but for how long. Based on the cost of pulling the engine out, i would be mighty bothered if in a few thousand miles the other side needs doing.
Yes its going to cost me, but to have the chance to improve an already good car, its one i am prepared to take.

Mark, a mate of mine blew up his 3.6 C4S on track. He had it rebuilt by Hartech to 3.9 spec and various other bits and pieces. That car is now an absolute weapon. I've driven it several times both before and after the rebuild. The torque of the 3.9 is epic. It pulls hard in every gear, it is so impressive.

Hartech FULL rebuild is definitely worth the money IMHO.

 

[youngsyr]

How do they know…

Let me tell you when I was 18 I had a 998 mini full cage bucket seats etc but 998 engine and insured correctly it was written off as while queueing in traffic someone rear ended it at high speed pushing it into a stationary van in front it was a right mess and about 2’ shorter

First thing the Insurance assessor did when he came to assess the damage was crowbar the bonnet open and pull the cylinder head off to check the capacity

Good job all my mods were declared oh and by the way that was not my Insurance assessor but the one from the person who caused the accident

It happens and it might not even be your fault so don’t give them any reason to not pay out

Winny

You're right, all mods should be declared.

However, an Insurance assessor whipping of the cylinder head on a 996 will be so far beyond his capabilities, it would never happen.

Not to mention that the status of your Insurance is irrelevant to the third party if they are at fault for the accident. They are responsible for the damage they caused, regardless of whether the car they hit is properly insured.