Beware: JR58CAR is a CAT S not a Cheap 997 Gen 2

[GMG]

...Porsche paranoia...clearly spoken by someone whom hasn't experienced a sudden,dramatic £10k plus engine failure :frustrated:

 

[Robert SausageTrousers]

...£20k ; top of the market? Don't think so...at that value it's unlikely to have had significant engine protective work thus sits in my view (as with 996s) in the 'high risk purchase' category...

Ok, maybe not 'top of the market' - but for a couple of grand more you're pretty much there, and you'll find a rebuilt example for around there too, given the choice between a rebuilt solid 997.1 or a high mileage write off 997.2 with no engine work, it's a no-brainer for me.

Two and a half years and 25k miles of driving heaven ago, I bought a rebuilt 997.1 on 51k miles for not much more.

 

[Robert SausageTrousers]

...Porsche paranoia...clearly spoken by someone whom hasn't experienced a sudden,dramatic £10k plus engine failure :frustrated:

Yes, because there are thousands upon thousands of people who've owned and enjoyed 911's without suffering the unfortunate circumstances you did.

 

[Luddite]

For sure the vast majority of 996/997.1 owners may not suffer an engine catastrophe... but to enter into ownership of one such blindly, and on a tight budget in the hope that it will work out favourably, does seem to be a bit of a gamble, unless you have a degree of comfort that should the worst happen, then unfortunate as it may be, you have what it takes to resolve the issue...?

I prefer the idea of informed decision making, and can well understand that those fortunate enough to be enjoying many miles of 996/997.1 ownership much prefer to protect the value of their cars, as opposed to having seemingly endless discussion of their foibles..however with an open and honest forum available, it seems perhaps one of the first places a rightly or wrongly unhappy/disappointed owner is likely to turn up to report unfortunate issues, is any such forum..?

The blinkered approach of the faithful or those seeking to maintain value in their "investments," or even those seeking to reduce the evaluation of the machine to suit their own ends, seems perhaps not the best council to seek...?

I suspect OLD sports cars should be treated with a degree of realistic expectation relative to their initial build quality, the cost of repairs/spares, and the life they might be expected to have lived in terms of their overall condition, other than being wowed with a great coat of paint, some sales patter, and the opportunity to buy your "dream" car... Been there done that, and it seems perhaps worthwhile to pass on a bit of that experience when it comes to the possible down sides of buying old sports cars, perhaps more so to those in a dream like state, and when there are so very many risks involved...?

I do not know the numbers for sure, but I do agree that there will be far more happy Porsche owners out there than those suffering total engine failures which they can neither justify or afford the cost of repairs.

I had three air cooled Porsches spanning over 10 years of hands-on involvement, and put a fair bit of time effort and money into them, the returns in terms of my enjoyment of them are still today many years on, such that on seeking to return to tin top sports car ownership, a Porsche was the first and only machine considered to replace my present open top V8 recreational vehicle...

I came here to be educated as to the evolution of the marque, and I have been, thanks to all those who take time to contribute their knowledge and experience. :bow:

 

[jonttt]

The issue for me is simply that you need the right 'mindset" to own a 996 or 997.1.......my good friend simply did not and it ruined it for him........my only 'agenda" is that buyers go into ownership eyes wide open and thus can enjoy the ownership experience fully and not have it spoiled for no reason other than ignorance pre purchase.........for that I know I get accused of scare mongering but guess what.....I don't really care......there is more than enough actual evidence to show that the risks are very real.........but the market reflects that and so with the right mindset you can have an unbelievable ownership experience.....but I always have Clint in my mind 'do I feel lucky.........Well do you punk?"

 

[arthouse]

The issue for me is simply that you need the right 'mindset" to own a 996 or 997.1.......my good friend simply did not and it ruined it for him........my only 'agenda" is that buyers go into ownership eyes wide open and thus can enjoy the ownership experience fully and not have it spoiled for no reason other than ignorance pre purchase.........for that I know I get accused of scare mongering but guess what.....I don't really care......there is more than enough actual evidence to show that the risks are very real.........but the market reflects that and so with the right mindset you can have an unbelievable ownership experience.....but I always have Clint in my mind 'do I feel lucky.........Well do you punk?"

I'm with you on this one! I nearly went for a Gen 1 a few years ago, but the more i read about them the more i just didn't feel confident enough to buy one knowing it 'could' end up being expensive, breaking down in the middle of Europe etc, that, and the fact that i just preferred the look of the Gen 2 as well as it having the new engine design. At the time 997.2's were out of reach for me price-wise, so i bought a Golf R instead.

Had that for around 18 months, and still couldn't shake off the want for a 911, so i sold the Golf and went for a Gen 2 C2 that popped up on here a day or so after the Golf went.

My mate bought a '06 Gen 1 C2 manual with 50K miles on it around the time i bought the Golf. It was forever breaking down but not with cylinder scoring or IMS issues, think he was very unlucky with that one, barely got to drive the thing, took him ages to sell it, he then went bought a Golf R!

Both Gen 1 and 2 are getting old now so you've got to expect some replacement/refreshing on both, my Gen 2 could suffer from some of the problems that my mates Gen 1 did.

I don't know what i'd do if i was the OP here! He did say he preferred the look of the Gen 1, i think a 911 is a car you're buying with your heart, so you should get the one you want/within your budget. Both options have their risks here, i think he's better off going for well maintained/rebuilt Gen 1 for that money.

 

[Luddite]

Jonttt, can it be that you read my earlier ramble on the poor chap who was selling "Penny" with the damaged engine issue.... or was it in any way possible that we may share a measure of synergy when you posted the Clint Eastwood clip that I mentioned in my "Penny"ramble....(-:

Regardless of that, I agree with your thinking in that it seems key to get things into a reasonable degree of perspective when choosing to buy into a vehicle that carries the risks of known issues. Right at this moment in time that seems less than ideal for me personally.

Prior to buying my old sports car 18 years ago, the web site of that marque was FULL of folk listing all sorts of issues suffered by owners, yet I still bought one, and ARTHOUSE, I set off on a holiday trip to the LM 24hrs with a bit of touring around France that exceeded a thousand miles.... I was more of a gambler back then...(-: That trip was followed by a couple more one to the south of Spain and another down to the Amalfi coast which was over four thousand miles...yup a tad adventurous to say the least, and all told I had one fan belt shredded while enjoying the company of a 930, and a moulded petrol pipe elbow failure, both of which I repaired on the spot, having carried numerous bits and pieces.. just in case... (-:

I suspect being to..err...precious about any machine can greatly restrict one`s ability to really enjoy it to the full.. :?:

 

[jkhamler]

Perhaps this would be a better option - it's exactly the kind of low key base spec kind of look I'm after - the only improvement for me would be 18 inch wheels and a PCM update

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202006260551809

No mention of rebuild or IMS work of course, so it's back to the same old story.

Maybe at 16/17k it could be a good buy.

 

[JonnieD]

Perhaps this would be a better option - it's exactly the kind of low key base spec kind of look I'm after - the only improvement for me would be 18 inch wheels and a PCM update

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202006260551809

No mention of rebuild or IMS work of course, so it's back to the same old story.

Maybe at 16/17k it could be a good buy.

I'm glad you said £16/17K because at the advertised price, that's really quite expensive!

I get that you really don't want a silver car. But when I compare that base 3.6 there with the silver 3.8 in Nottingham with the Hartech rebuild at £19K, there's just no comparison! The base one you've linked to also has 23K more miles, and getting close to the magic 100K level.

I have to ask though, given what you said about the PCM update, what is it about the 997.1 that you actually prefer?!

 

[jkhamler]

This just popped up. Local, clean title with lots of recent expenditure. No dodgy black wheels. A better buy surely?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/porsche-997-gen-2/174336040465

 

[T8]

This just popped up. Local, clean title with lots of recent expenditure. No dodgy black wheels. A better buy surely?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/porsche-997-gen-2/174336040465

The technician who did the service at Precision Porsche in November 2019 is a regular contributor on here.

I'll send him a pm.

 

[jkhamler]

Brilliant thanks! Might save an unnecessary PPI.

That service bill was pretty hefty (~£5k) - I'm not sure whether it's reassuring that this much work was done, or worrying that it needed it in the first place.

 

[deMort]

The car is listed as sold so i'm unsure whether you or someone else has bought the car .

They only show 2 pages of the invoice , usually there will be a list of work that wasn't done .. advisories .

Spending that sort of money and then selling the car is a good thing for a buyer .. it tends to point towards the fact they have done the work needed to get the car back to a sensible standard .

Two things though .. i'm afraid i don't remember the car , not unusual as i work on rather a lot of cars ..

I'm also whether at home or at work governed by the Data protection act ..

Always happy to help out where i can but there are limits im afraid .. i already push the boundaries with what i sometimes post .. breaching data protection is a step too far .... sorry .

 

[JonnieD]

Ironically that car originally posted, is now for sale at Invictus Motors, its up on Pistonheads at £28K!

https://www.pistonheads.com/classif...PriceLowToHigh&Transmission=MAN&YearFrom=2008


No mention of its Cat S history either

 

[T8]

Ironically that car originally posted, is now for sale at Invictus Motors, its up on Pistonheads at £28K!

No mention of its Cat S history either

That's very naughty.

It looks like Invictus are buying up private 911s all over

See this thread too => http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=140407&highlight=invictus

I've altered the title of this thread accordingly.