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997.2 MISFIRE ON ALL 6 CYLINDERS
- Thread starter liteuser
- Start date
Somehow a cross post on PH allowed a user to post as me !! WTF...
Added for demort
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1989937
Added for demort
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=1989937
liteuser said:
Im very much looking forward to reading this ... and it's best if i wait till i have read it before commenting ..
If it says what i think it will then i will obviously be making my feelings known
BTW .. if you had any comments on this post on other forums then please send me a link .. i'd love to read what other people said .
A quick update.....
I have not seen the Porsche technical Bulletin,,,, yet,,,
Scockers (see above), he had the misfire issue after a major service....... The new aux belt was changed with another new aux belt and his issue has gone.
I have had a chap from Didcot contact me who has a Caymen S, same issue, he has spent the best part of £4k and is currently having his 6 injectors changed, no remedy as of yet......
My crank sensor is being changed regardless as it's ceased in its location. once my engine is put back in, if that has not rectified the issue then that will be the next item to change, AGAIN.
Remember,, my 997.2 went in for a chirping/squeaking water pump, The AUX belt and water pump were changed, issue started, water pump was changed again for a new one and the problem remained.
Apparently there are 2 belts and the difference between them is 0.5mm.
I can't believe that an 11 year old Porsche can have an issue like this and there seems to be no known fix.
I appreciate that it's a process of elimination as sooo many items can cause a misfire on all 6 cylinders.
There is hope! Just got to find it!
I have not seen the Porsche technical Bulletin,,,, yet,,,
Scockers (see above), he had the misfire issue after a major service....... The new aux belt was changed with another new aux belt and his issue has gone.
I have had a chap from Didcot contact me who has a Caymen S, same issue, he has spent the best part of £4k and is currently having his 6 injectors changed, no remedy as of yet......
My crank sensor is being changed regardless as it's ceased in its location. once my engine is put back in, if that has not rectified the issue then that will be the next item to change, AGAIN.
Remember,, my 997.2 went in for a chirping/squeaking water pump, The AUX belt and water pump were changed, issue started, water pump was changed again for a new one and the problem remained.
Apparently there are 2 belts and the difference between them is 0.5mm.
I can't believe that an 11 year old Porsche can have an issue like this and there seems to be no known fix.
I appreciate that it's a process of elimination as sooo many items can cause a misfire on all 6 cylinders.
There is hope! Just got to find it!
Short version of my long post above .. something is vibrating .. water pump / drive belt and the knock sensors are retarding the ignition timing .. instead of this being just 1 cylinder which the system was designed for ..
The vibration is rolling back all 6 cylinders .
Drive belt or water pump .. i can't say but thanks to liteuser he added that bit of extra info i needed to work out what is happening with these cars .
EDIT ..
After a conversation tonight with my original customer .. i will say the drive belt is causing an issue with the tensioner shock absorber and its this that is causing the vibration .. i expect any bulletin will be about a modified tensioner shock absorber .. plus probably a drive belt to rectify this issue .
The vibration is rolling back all 6 cylinders .
Drive belt or water pump .. i can't say but thanks to liteuser he added that bit of extra info i needed to work out what is happening with these cars .
EDIT ..
After a conversation tonight with my original customer .. i will say the drive belt is causing an issue with the tensioner shock absorber and its this that is causing the vibration .. i expect any bulletin will be about a modified tensioner shock absorber .. plus probably a drive belt to rectify this issue .
Morning.
THANK YOU, to everyone who has had an interest in this post and shared information and commented.
I hope that we, between us all, have hopefully found the common solution to rectifying the misfire issue.
It does seem that a lot more people 'in the know' Are pointing at the belt. I have had confirmation from 2 guys, confirming that a non OEM AUX belt was fitted and misfiring issue appears. 1 has confirmed that the correct OEM Porsche (£70) belt has been fitted to his car (60 minutes of labour) and it has rectified the issue.
Also, I was kindly sent this by my misfire buddy in Didcot, makes for an interesting read and also shows how important it is to buy from the right Indy.
It's copied from face book 'Porsche Owners UK' written by Trevor Gibson.
If you can't be bothered to read it, in brief: they changed the AUX belt, it stopped misfiring, problem solved.
Hopefully this is the information we have all been waiting for. I will update my issue on here once my problem has been solved,,, fingers crossed.
Well that's been a bit of a roller coaster 3 months...!
In early April this year after about a two year hunt for 'the one" - a 2010 987 Spyder- I handed over my money to Cameron Porsche, a largish independent Porsche dealer near Bath. The car was serviced, MOTd and polished up for me ready for collection. Less than an hour after pickup while driving home the engine started misfiring and lost virtually all power. Camerons recovered the car and told me they would have it back to me after I returned from my Easter holiday which I was about to go on.
When I did return the car, sadly, wasn't fixed. It was throwing pages of error codes. They had already changed a number of items including coil packs and solenoid valve lifters, but still the car was throwing faults and going into limp mode within a short few miles of being driven.
It could take a while to literally replace all of the items it could be so they gave me a 718 Cayman S as a loan car.
After considerable exploration and a number of components being changed without success, it was concluded that it must be a software issue so the car was packed off to an OPC to have the DME software reinstalled. The next day, the OPC said this had fixed it and it was ready for collection. Within a few miles, the problem was back.
Tim, Camerons chief mechanic said literally the only thing they hadn't change that it could be was the DME itself. A new one was ordered from Porsche. A couple of weeks later, that was fitted and it was sent back to the OPC for a further software update. The OPC called and said it had been a success, the fault was gone... you guessed it, 8 miles later the fault was back. That was on Monday this week and was a considerable problem for me: I was due to drive to France on Thursday to kick off a construction project in the alps.
Simon, the boss man at Camerons called and said they were out of ideas, that they didn't know what to do with it, and that I could have my money back on return of the loan car. We agreed I would take it back today (Thursday). On Tuesday I desperately began the search for another Spyder.
I got up today ready to take the drive down to Bath and get my money back. Shortly after I did, I received a call from Simon at Camerons. Incredibly, Porsche had released a technical bulletin saying that a number of cars appear to have been adversely affected by the fitment of a new auxiliary belt which was slightly out of spec. It was recommended that the air con auxiliary belt be replaced.
My (perhaps simplistic) understanding is that the out of tolerance belt was causing some engine vibration at precisely 2900rpm, that the ECU was recognising that there was vibration but not where it was coming from, and as a result was throwing fault codes on any item it thought could be causing the problem and throwing the car into limp mode (presumably to protect it from engine damage).
4 hours later a new auxiliary belt has been procured and fitted. REsult? Problem solved. And after a day of testing, still no problem has appeared.
So 3 months later my little red 987 made it all the way back to Birmingham (via a somewhat circuitous route) and is now safely tucked up in my garage ready for a trip down to the alps this Sunday. And the only sad news is that I now don't need the spotless 5000 mile 981 Spyder that I found at the OPC in Perth and had persuaded myself I did need.
What did I learn from this experience...? First thing is, buying from a reputable dealer is key. If I'd bought privately this would have cost me 8-10k to fix. Secondly, Cameron's are fabulous. They kept me up to date, lent me a virtually new loan car while my 12 year old was playing silly bvggers and made it clear that I could opt to have my money back at any time. And today, when I collected and said I was a little nervous the problem might come back, Simon gave me a 6 month guarantee that they would sort it if it did. As the old saying goes, don't judge people because something goes wrong, judge them by how they put it right when it does. For me, Cameron's probably just gained a client for life.
THANK YOU, to everyone who has had an interest in this post and shared information and commented.
I hope that we, between us all, have hopefully found the common solution to rectifying the misfire issue.
It does seem that a lot more people 'in the know' Are pointing at the belt. I have had confirmation from 2 guys, confirming that a non OEM AUX belt was fitted and misfiring issue appears. 1 has confirmed that the correct OEM Porsche (£70) belt has been fitted to his car (60 minutes of labour) and it has rectified the issue.
Also, I was kindly sent this by my misfire buddy in Didcot, makes for an interesting read and also shows how important it is to buy from the right Indy.
It's copied from face book 'Porsche Owners UK' written by Trevor Gibson.
If you can't be bothered to read it, in brief: they changed the AUX belt, it stopped misfiring, problem solved.
Hopefully this is the information we have all been waiting for. I will update my issue on here once my problem has been solved,,, fingers crossed.
Well that's been a bit of a roller coaster 3 months...!
In early April this year after about a two year hunt for 'the one" - a 2010 987 Spyder- I handed over my money to Cameron Porsche, a largish independent Porsche dealer near Bath. The car was serviced, MOTd and polished up for me ready for collection. Less than an hour after pickup while driving home the engine started misfiring and lost virtually all power. Camerons recovered the car and told me they would have it back to me after I returned from my Easter holiday which I was about to go on.
When I did return the car, sadly, wasn't fixed. It was throwing pages of error codes. They had already changed a number of items including coil packs and solenoid valve lifters, but still the car was throwing faults and going into limp mode within a short few miles of being driven.
It could take a while to literally replace all of the items it could be so they gave me a 718 Cayman S as a loan car.
After considerable exploration and a number of components being changed without success, it was concluded that it must be a software issue so the car was packed off to an OPC to have the DME software reinstalled. The next day, the OPC said this had fixed it and it was ready for collection. Within a few miles, the problem was back.
Tim, Camerons chief mechanic said literally the only thing they hadn't change that it could be was the DME itself. A new one was ordered from Porsche. A couple of weeks later, that was fitted and it was sent back to the OPC for a further software update. The OPC called and said it had been a success, the fault was gone... you guessed it, 8 miles later the fault was back. That was on Monday this week and was a considerable problem for me: I was due to drive to France on Thursday to kick off a construction project in the alps.
Simon, the boss man at Camerons called and said they were out of ideas, that they didn't know what to do with it, and that I could have my money back on return of the loan car. We agreed I would take it back today (Thursday). On Tuesday I desperately began the search for another Spyder.
I got up today ready to take the drive down to Bath and get my money back. Shortly after I did, I received a call from Simon at Camerons. Incredibly, Porsche had released a technical bulletin saying that a number of cars appear to have been adversely affected by the fitment of a new auxiliary belt which was slightly out of spec. It was recommended that the air con auxiliary belt be replaced.
My (perhaps simplistic) understanding is that the out of tolerance belt was causing some engine vibration at precisely 2900rpm, that the ECU was recognising that there was vibration but not where it was coming from, and as a result was throwing fault codes on any item it thought could be causing the problem and throwing the car into limp mode (presumably to protect it from engine damage).
4 hours later a new auxiliary belt has been procured and fitted. REsult? Problem solved. And after a day of testing, still no problem has appeared.
So 3 months later my little red 987 made it all the way back to Birmingham (via a somewhat circuitous route) and is now safely tucked up in my garage ready for a trip down to the alps this Sunday. And the only sad news is that I now don't need the spotless 5000 mile 981 Spyder that I found at the OPC in Perth and had persuaded myself I did need.
What did I learn from this experience...? First thing is, buying from a reputable dealer is key. If I'd bought privately this would have cost me 8-10k to fix. Secondly, Cameron's are fabulous. They kept me up to date, lent me a virtually new loan car while my 12 year old was playing silly bvggers and made it clear that I could opt to have my money back at any time. And today, when I collected and said I was a little nervous the problem might come back, Simon gave me a 6 month guarantee that they would sort it if it did. As the old saying goes, don't judge people because something goes wrong, judge them by how they put it right when it does. For me, Cameron's probably just gained a client for life.
I am getting more and more people messaging me saying they had the misfire issue and the MELYE AUX BELT are the cause. Possibly other brands too, I'm no expert..........
There is too much rubber on the belt which causes a resonance for the knock sensors to interpret as misfires is the most recent message I have received.
PORSCHE OEM belt fixes the issue, is what I have been told.
I really hope so,, it has definitely worked for a few of the people that have contacted me.
My car is having the crank sensor replaced then the new OEM belt fitted.
I should find out at the beginning of next week. I will post the results here, fingers crossed
There is too much rubber on the belt which causes a resonance for the knock sensors to interpret as misfires is the most recent message I have received.
PORSCHE OEM belt fixes the issue, is what I have been told.
I really hope so,, it has definitely worked for a few of the people that have contacted me.
My car is having the crank sensor replaced then the new OEM belt fitted.
I should find out at the beginning of next week. I will post the results here, fingers crossed
Very interesting thread and I too have what feels like a regular misfire between 2700-3000 rpm. I've had my OPC look at it and they reported an occasional misfire on cylinders 1,2,5,6, though no fault codes. Since then my Porsche Specialist has done a full service on the car including plugs and new belt. That didn't solve the issue and reading this thread I'm now wondering if I have the same issue as many here and that an official Porsche belt may solve the issue. I have a 2009 C2S.
@ LuckyLuc
I for one would certainly have the belt swapped out just in case .. this fault though tends to be all 6 cylinders misfiring and held at around 2700 rpm you will possibly get an engine check light on .
If not the belt then i would lean towards something like the tappet high lift solenoids .. again this doesn't quite fit the bill in that respect but it is possible .
@ liteuser
I currently have no doubt a new belt will fix this issue .. to me it finally makes sense what's going on and as usual .. in hindsight it's obvious .
Why can't i have Hindsight BEFORE i start jobs like this :?:
:grin:
I for one would certainly have the belt swapped out just in case .. this fault though tends to be all 6 cylinders misfiring and held at around 2700 rpm you will possibly get an engine check light on .
If not the belt then i would lean towards something like the tappet high lift solenoids .. again this doesn't quite fit the bill in that respect but it is possible .
@ liteuser
I currently have no doubt a new belt will fix this issue .. to me it finally makes sense what's going on and as usual .. in hindsight it's obvious .
Why can't i have Hindsight BEFORE i start jobs like this :?:
:grin:
FZP said:
It's getting nitty gritty now. DeMort, you may go to full deity status under your post counts if you nail this. I'll be on to management to make it happen :worship: :worship:
Lol .. Bless you .. i'm just a mechanic though trying to figure out what at times are very difficult issues .
Every garage has struggled with this fault including me .. i was unfortunately the last port of call for my customer as he had spent so much money already ..
I was disappointed that i couldn't get to the bottom of it and it took the second comment from liteuser in this thread for me to finally realise what was going on ..
At that stage i didn't know exactly which item was at fault but it was coming from drive belt or related items , pump , pulleys etc .
It now seems very much like it is the drive belt .
For me .. one to add to the list .. but i expect this will very quickly die down and we will never see it again .
Who would ever have guessed a slight intolerance in a drive belt could have such a major impact on a car .. not me that's for sure !
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