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New hot 'not starting' issue

J

Jcx

Estoril
Joined
15 Aug 2013
Messages
3,876
Hi Gang,

This weekend, on three or four occasions, my car did not start when first cranked, sometimes it took 2 or 3 cranks to fire.

It always happened after i had driven the car, it was nicely warm, and i stopped for 5-30 minutes. One time was at the petrol station when refueling (5 minute stop) another time was after stopping for a coffee and a quick stroll around the town (30 minute stop).

I go to start and it turns over 'nah-nah-nah-nah-nah' but doesn't fire and doesn't seem like it even wants to. I turn off the ignition completely, then go to do it again. sometimes starts on second go, sometimes on third go.

I thought it may be the DME relay on the way out so i changed that for my new spare. I also checked the fuses. All work and still the problem is there on occasion - but not at all times.

Anyone got any suggestions? I have researched other threads that suggested the following:

- Flat battery - mine appears good and sits on a CTEK in the garage.
- ISV needs cleaning
- CSP is faulty
- Bad ground somewhere
- Faulty alarm/immobiliser
- DME needs resetting

Any thoughts? experiences of the same?

TIA
 
Those are the obvious pointers and DME would have been my best guess as a Hot starting issue.

I'm sure I've read somewhere an issue with fuel evaporating or doing something when the car is hot that affects the starting.

(Was a few years ago and may be in the 993 section :dont know: )
 
OK Tx again B.

I searched for 'fuel evaporation' and i found this:

I assume that the engine turns over, but just does not start. I would suspect that you are experiencing "vapor lock" in the gas (petrol) line.

My old 914 was always having this condition on hot stop-starts. I found that turning the key on, and allowing the fuel pump to run for a few seconds, then off, followed by on-wait-off, on-wait-off, would circulate the fuel and disperse the vapor. Then the car would start.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-964-993-technical-forum/559957-964-little-problem.html

This may well be the issue as i naturally did this (turn on turn off turn on) a few times yesterday after experiencing the no start problem and it started first time i tried when hot. I'll have to monitor this.
 
My red car had that same thing "exactly", so embarrassing at the fuel station ! , my indy couldn't find a fault and renewed something or other which didn't solve the problem, after months of hassle i changed the starter motor and it was fixed .
Pretty sure that Mick who has the car now has had the problem back again recently after two years being clear of it . Pete will have his forum name ive forgot it ( crl21) something like that .
 
FPR (fuel pressure regulator ) could be an issue ,split diaphragm causing fuel to go down the vacuum pipe

Quick test is to pull vac pipe off and see if any fuel is in it ,mine had trace which looked like a white chalky deposit

I did post on changing I think
:?:
 
kp964 said:
My red car had that same thing "exactly", so embarrassing at the fuel station ! , my indy couldn't find a fault and renewed something or other which didn't solve the problem, after months of hassle i changed the starter motor and it was fixed .
Pretty sure that Mick who has the car now has had the problem back again recently after two years being clear of it . Pete will have his forum name ive forgot it ( crl21) something like that .
Click to expand...

Right thx KP. Others have reported similar but usually the started doesnt do the 'nah-nah-nah-nah' thing turning over like mine, theirs just clicks once. was yours doing the nah nah nah thing? I know you said 'exactly' the same issue so i assume it does. and YES it is embarrassing :oops:

clinchy993 said:
FPR (fuel pressure regulator ) could be an issue ,split diaphragm causing fuel to go down the vacuum pipe

Quick test is to pull vac pipe off and see if any fuel is in it ,mine had trace which looked like a white chalky deposit

I did post on changing I think
:?:
Click to expand...

thx Clinchy. Where is the vac pipe pls?
 
I had this happen a few times last summer. Always at Sainsburys or the petrol station where loads of people can see you driving an old Porsche....nice.

ISV was the culprit. Not had a problem since.
 
B345ty said:
I had this happen a few times last summer. Always at Sainsburys or the petrol station where loads of people can see you driving an old Porsche....nice.

ISV was the culprit. Not had a problem since.
Click to expand...

Here's hoping... i think cleaning it is my easiest fix. is that what you did? Did you use white spirits?
 
Jcx said:
B345ty said:
I had this happen a few times last summer. Always at Sainsburys or the petrol station where loads of people can see you driving an old Porsche....nice.

ISV was the culprit. Not had a problem since.
Click to expand...

Here's hoping... i think cleaning it is my easiest fix. is that what you did? Did you use white spirits?
Click to expand...

I didn't clean it myself but took the car in for some new fuel lines and they said they had done it for me. Believe you can use brake cleaner....someone correct me if I am wrong...

I have heard it's ok getting the ISV out but getting it back in place after you have cleaned it is a complete b!tch!
 
B345ty said:
Jcx said:
B345ty said:
I had this happen a few times last summer. Always at Sainsburys or the petrol station where loads of people can see you driving an old Porsche....nice.

ISV was the culprit. Not had a problem since.
Click to expand...

Here's hoping... i think cleaning it is my easiest fix. is that what you did? Did you use white spirits?
Click to expand...

I didn't clean it myself but took the car in for some new fuel lines and they said they had done it for me. Believe you can use brake cleaner....someone correct me if I am wrong...

I have heard it's ok getting the ISV out but getting it back in place after you have cleaned it is a complete b!tch!
Click to expand...

always good to know. it is one of those jobs that needs LOTS of time, just in case. Don't start it with a deadline :)
 
Yes loads of nah nah nah , the starter sounded fine , turning the engine over fine , but when the new starter was fitted it was going na na na na na much quicker :grin: .

Anyway after about 5 mins of stoppage the engine can "sometimes" take a fraction of a second longer to kick in so your starter needs to be 100% , engine gets very hot "after" its switched of as they run cool and disperse the heat when sitting , il have you know . :)
 
clinchy993 said:
FPR (fuel pressure regulator ) could be an issue ,split diaphragm causing fuel to go down the vacuum pipe

Quick test is to pull vac pipe off and see if any fuel is in it ,mine had trace which looked like a white chalky deposit

I did post on changing I think
:?:
Click to expand...

Hi Clinchy, I think that you had a CHT changed and posted on FPR but don't appear to have changed your FPR.

Pulling the vaccuum pipe, do you do that with the engine running or engine off?

TIA
 
kp964 said:
Yes loads of nah nah nah , the starter sounded fine , turning the engine over fine , but when the new starter was fitted it was going na na na na na much quicker :grin: .

Anyway after about 5 mins of stoppage the engine can "sometimes" take a fraction of a second longer to kick in so your starter needs to be 100% , engine gets very hot "after" its switched of as they run cool and disperse the heat when sitting , il have you know . :)
Click to expand...

Ah good advice thx. All makes perfect sense.
 
Here's what I was thinking :?: that Fuch posted on RL

Crank position sensor diagnosed

And another about fuel
 
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