Tesla - Where do you start ?

[New997buyer]

That's really interesting..... in a positive way about customer service

I guess the thing that worries me from what I have read is that post warranty everything gets very very expensive very quickly.
So while in warranty the drive motor goes and the door handles breaks they replace them no problem, customer v happy. But then you realise that post warranty you can only get parts from them and the handles are $800 a pop and motor is $16,000 a go

I was very surprised as well. When his car was in for a new part and off the road for two weeks ty gave him a diesel Toerag and paid his diesel.

The investors are hedging (in the traditional sense) that it'll indeed do an Amazon. And the indicators are it will as he is surrounded by more experienced people. But whether Tesla fails or not, the game has changed for us all.

SpaceX is a far more interesting project for me. There he really is forging new ground :thumbs:

.....and the value of your cherished Tesla is 8p

Which is still more valuable than David Davis' reputation

 

[Dammit]

The SpaceX business is amazing, and I hope he continues with that.

I've got concerns about Tesla - and not the ones already mentioned here, but rather technical ones/choices that Tesla have made.

They've decided that they don't need LIDAR whereas every other org in this sector see that as a non-negotiable requirement for a true self-driving vehicle.

Tesla are sticking with short range ultra-sonic sensors, and visual data from essentially posh dashcams, it's simply not good enough.

That Musk liked Iain M Banks books so much that he named numerous craft after them, yet absolutely 100% misunderstood one of the key aspects of said books speaks to a man viewing the world through a very powerful distorting lens, fashioned from a world view that is becoming increasingly apparent in his tweets.

= He's going to go the full Howard Hughes I suspect.

 

[New997buyer]

Easy on Howard, he's family :wink:

Musk is a classic visionary. He's far from perfect but I'll take someone with his foibles pushing the envelope anyday. :dont know:

On the business model, my concerns are that there's the humility to utilise over a hundred years of high quality mass production know how. The signs are mixed on that front, hence the concerns from investors. But I recall similar concerns when Apple decided it'd be a manufacturer of phones. At the time all the analysts pulled out Nokia and said 'How they he'll can they beat these guys doing this kind of nonsense?" And we know where that ended.

And like Apple he's created a brand from nothing people aspire to with the same prestige as a BMW or Mercedes. When I was in Palo Alto four weeks ago thy were everywhere. In basic BCG Matrix speak his portfolio has a number of rising stars. The demand is there. Just the supply (edit) to sort.

There's many UK car manufacturer who'd take that. :thumbs:

 

[tim993]

The Autocar test of the iPace vs the big Tesla (not the X or the 3, the other one costing circa £65k) concluded the Jaguar was the better car. Norway has pushed electric cars in a big way and Tesla parts back up has proved to be terrible, thus far. If I was in the market for such a thing, I'd take the Jag. Though frankly if I went for any full electric car right now I'd look to Nissan or BMW. I know these are not luxury /premium cars, but they are much more affordable way to dip ones toe in the new tech. BMW in particular are trying to address the weight problem with electric cars, so their little i3 is particularly appealing with its largely carbon structure. Depreciation aside, the i8 is a lovely thing too. As it stands today, I trust BMW, Jaguar, Nissan (and even Renault) over Tesla in the short to medium term to provide proper back up for their products.

 

[kurlykris]

But as the old gammon who deny climate change die off, politics will change and it'll be normed.

Can you clarify what an "old gammon" is please :?:

 

[Main Force Patrol]

Easy on Howard, he's family :wink:

Musk is a classic visionary. He's far from perfect but I'll take someone with his foibles pushing the envelope anyday. :dont know:

On the business model, my concerns are that there's the humility to utilise over a hundred years of high quality mass production know how. The signs are mixed on that front, hence the concerns from investors. But I recall similar concerns when Apple decided it'd be a manufacturer of phones. At the time all the analysts pulled out Nokia and said 'How they he'll can they beat these guys doing this kind of nonsense?" And we know where that ended.

And like Apple he's created a brand from nothing people aspire to with the same prestige as a BMW or Mercedes. When I was in Palo Alto four weeks ago thy were everywhere. In basic BCG Matrix speak his portfolio has a number of rising stars. The demand is there. Just the supply (edit) to sort.

There's many UK car manufacturer who'd take that. :thumbs:

There is complete merit in both the Apple & Amazon stories applying to Tesla, Apple basically creating a new market and Amazon building a massive debt mountain but trusting the client portfolio would save them, and in both cases they were/are hugely successful !

I just think ( and here's where I get non logical ) there is a smell about Tesla and Musk I simply don't like, it just feels a bit Bernie Madoff but all done in the plain sight....
He basically lies to his investors about production targets and even short term financing and lots of people think that's cool, whereas I think it shows intent, if you lie about A could he also lie about B,C and D.

But of course I could be wrong

:?: :?:

 

[madalaa]

..... but you are most probably not ......

 

[Main Force Patrol]

..... but you are most probably not ......

Can I print this off and show it to my wife ?

 

[New997buyer]

But as the old gammon who deny climate change die off, politics will change and it'll be normed.

Can you clarify what an "old gammon" is please :?:

Happy to oblige.

Middle aged men, predominantly white, who are avid consumers of numerous right wing conspiracy theories. They tend feel aggreaved and a sense of anger towards 'liberals', 'elites', 'migrants' and other groups they cheaply, and lazily, label and rail against. They're very thin skinned, so while glibly mocking 'PC culture' they easily take the slightest offence and bleat like babies when anyone describes them in ways they find disrespectful. (High levels of self awareness are typically not their thing.)

They tend to subscribe to a fixed narrative involving a carefully selective understanding of genetics, history, economics, religion and sociology. All carefully arranged to support the underlying worldview that the west (Christian) is under systematic attack from 'others' (typically Muslim but a bit of anti semitism is often found there).

To them 'Liberals' are foolish supplicants to those threatening 'our way of life': not bad people but like lambs they may need sacrificed at the altar of defeating the Islamic / Judaic enemy (Biblical allusion intentional).

You'll find them on the internet on forums often acting as apologists for racists fucktards like Donald Trump, Tommy (Racist *****) Robinson and other authoritarian promoting semen breath slime balls. Such as Steve Bannon.

Brexit is often a binding cause for them. Though 'how' changes rather often.

Personally I'd call them a pernicious scourge.

Hope that helps :thumbs:

 

[New997buyer]

Easy on Howard, he's family :wink:

Musk is a classic visionary. He's far from perfect but I'll take someone with his foibles pushing the envelope anyday. :dont know:

On the business model, my concerns are that there's the humility to utilise over a hundred years of high quality mass production know how. The signs are mixed on that front, hence the concerns from investors. But I recall similar concerns when Apple decided it'd be a manufacturer of phones. At the time all the analysts pulled out Nokia and said 'How they he'll can they beat these guys doing this kind of nonsense?" And we know where that ended.

And like Apple he's created a brand from nothing people aspire to with the same prestige as a BMW or Mercedes. When I was in Palo Alto four weeks ago thy were everywhere. In basic BCG Matrix speak his portfolio has a number of rising stars. The demand is there. Just the supply (edit) to sort.

There's many UK car manufacturer who'd take that. :thumbs:

There is complete merit in both the Apple & Amazon stories applying to Tesla, Apple basically creating a new market and Amazon building a massive debt mountain but trusting the client portfolio would save them, and in both cases they were/are hugely successful !

I just think ( and here's where I get non logical ) there is a smell about Tesla and Musk I simply don't like, it just feels a bit Bernie Madoff but all done in the plain sight....
He basically lies to his investors about production targets and even short term financing and lots of people think that's cool, whereas I think it shows intent, if you lie about A could he also lie about B,C and D.

But of course I could be wrong

:?: :?:

Great question to ask. In all these things it's determied by the payoff? I don't thing it's a Ponzi scheme by any imagination. But he is taking a gamble.

If he pulls it off he'll be a genius (Jobs and smart phones). If not he'll be castigated. But I can't see Tesla disappearing. Acquired maybe?

But I'll take him and his foibles anyday. The world needs characters not clones, as a S.H.I.T. rightly said :thumbs:

 

[Main Force Patrol]

Easy on Howard, he's family :wink:

Musk is a classic visionary. He's far from perfect but I'll take someone with his foibles pushing the envelope anyday. :dont know:

On the business model, my concerns are that there's the humility to utilise over a hundred years of high quality mass production know how. The signs are mixed on that front, hence the concerns from investors. But I recall similar concerns when Apple decided it'd be a manufacturer of phones. At the time all the analysts pulled out Nokia and said 'How they he'll can they beat these guys doing this kind of nonsense?" And we know where that ended.

And like Apple he's created a brand from nothing people aspire to with the same prestige as a BMW or Mercedes. When I was in Palo Alto four weeks ago thy were everywhere. In basic BCG Matrix speak his portfolio has a number of rising stars. The demand is there. Just the supply (edit) to sort.

There's many UK car manufacturer who'd take that. :thumbs:

There is complete merit in both the Apple & Amazon stories applying to Tesla, Apple basically creating a new market and Amazon building a massive debt mountain but trusting the client portfolio would save them, and in both cases they were/are hugely successful !

I just think ( and here's where I get non logical ) there is a smell about Tesla and Musk I simply don't like, it just feels a bit Bernie Madoff but all done in the plain sight....
He basically lies to his investors about production targets and even short term financing and lots of people think that's cool, whereas I think it shows intent, if you lie about A could he also lie about B,C and D.

But of course I could be wrong

:?: :?:

Great question to ask. In all these things it's determied by the payoff? I don't thing it's a Ponzi scheme by any imagination. But he is taking a gamble.

If he pulls it off he'll be a genius (Jobs and smart phones). If not he'll be castigated. But I can't see Tesla disappearing. Acquired maybe?

But I'll take him and his foibles anyday. The world needs characters not clones, as a S.H.I.T. rightly said :thumbs:

Completely agree with your analysis but I still get the feeling he's a 'wrong un' who is not fit to run the company.
I guess there are some people out there who are great at generating ideas and getting stuff done, but they aren't necessarily the right sort of people to then run the operation going forward, Stelios at EasyJet springs to mind

His announcement recently that they have secretly been working on a super fast chip to enable more technology is a classic example, some people think that is sheer genius, others ( including me ) think so how did you fund this development, what resources were diverted to make this happen when you have a queue of 300,000 waiting for an existing car. All smacks of Branson like BS when announces public space flights for the 10th time on dates that never materialise but the MSM never call it out as BS.

I'm not a complete cynic, I worked in and with big companies, mainly in manufacturing and manufacturing systems so I get how hard this stuff is, but I can't ever recall a time where a leadership team made untrue statements that on a regular basis.
Honesty isn't a flexible commodity in my books but I think this maybe a function of my age and history, see also younger people and mobile phones :grin:

 

[Disco]

... Stelios at EasyJet ... Branson ...

People have been offering up all manner of analogies with Musk and other industry disruptors, but as yet there is an obvious one that nobody has mentioned. Freddie Laker and Skytrain. He set out to break the status quo, committed to an objective that he fully believed in and so on. But once he had disrupted the business model for ever, the majors all caught up and as a function of scale - beat him at his own game and sent him into bankruptcy. I think that the people shorting Tesla stock are expecting that to be Tesla's ultimate outcome.

And if they do go to the wall, anyone buying them is unlikely to want to pick up the car part of the business - surely they will be bought for cents on the dollar in order to scoop up the charging network?

 

[Dammit]

Hmm.

 

[Dammit]

Hah!

 

[Main Force Patrol]

... Stelios at EasyJet ... Branson ...

People have been offering up all manner of analogies with Musk and other industry disruptors, but as yet there is an obvious one that nobody has mentioned. Freddie Laker and Skytrain. He set out to break the status quo, committed to an objective that he fully believed in and so on. But once he had disrupted the business model for ever, the majors all caught up and as a function of scale - beat him at his own game and sent him into bankruptcy. I think that the people shorting Tesla stock are expecting that to be Tesla's ultimate outcome.

And if they do go to the wall, anyone buying them is unlikely to want to pick up the car part of the business - surely they will be bought for cents on the dollar in order to scoop up the charging network?

Freddie bless him, I remember reading his obituary a few years back in the Telegraph, he was a real maverick of his day.
He really got screwed over by the big players, I honestly believe he would have been successful in this internet age rather than the 70's. As I recall Virgin got a similar backlash from BA but Branson was far too clever / better cash resources to buckle.

Based on today's tweet from Musk nothing would surprise me including tearing off a rubber mask and revealing himself as Elvis