Is PCM etc worth worrying about?

[uuf361]

I am in the process of having PCM retro-fitted to mine (thanks to Sid Spanner) - it's not going to work out cheap but have managed to source some of the required parts from fleabay and will look good when finished........

Also, then going to get the centre painted Seal Grey (to match the outside) and get a new gear stick and handbrake (the more silver ones), and hopefully this will freshen and brighten up the interior. As I plan to keep the car for a couple more years thought it was worth. The other option was to trade up to a 997 C2 Cab, but for a year newer with similar spec and miles the cost to change was going to be a cool £20K :shock:

 

[nineoneone]

OK the TomTom or similar look a bit tacky as an add-on but IMHO if you want a speed camera detector you're going to have a tacky add-on anyway so you may as well have a sat-nav/camera detector combined and save a bundle of money

 

[Wattie]

I am a bit of a Sat Nav expert, in that I train people to demonstrate various systems for various car manufacturers, so I thought you might want to hear my views:

Personally, I would not buy any car over about £25,000 without a manufacturer installed navigation system - period.

Manufacturer systems have the invaluable benefit of knowing where you are when the receiver can't see enough satellites (needs to be at least 4 in different directions). The times this will matter will be when you are surrounded by tall buildings and with a double-decker bus on either side - i.e. when you need it most, in the city! Also, the Americans switch off the satellites occasionally (I once drove all the way back from Monaco on a beautiful clear night, with no signal on either TomTom or PCM), and don't work too well in heavy rain and fog (has to be line of sight - with no metal or solid objects inbetween): Don't forget that if the aerial is inside the car (on a portable unit) it will only be able to see satellites visible through the glass - not the roof or pillars.

Having said that, I also have a TomTom and GPS enabled Autoroute on my laptop, in case I need the latest information on new roads, etc.

Having used TMC extensively on clients cars, I now always either switch it off or ignore it - it is CRAP! I am fed up of being diverted off of motorways and then finding out that the problem was smoke blowing over two lanes 4 hours earlier, and then running straight into a monster traffic jam on a minor road (that isn't recorded on TMC) because of all the other TMC users doing the same!

OK so a few roads will be out of date (but even my TomTom still tries to direct me down a local road that has been bypassed for 10 years (and is actually now a footpath!)

Also, as someone else said, the phone module knocks any bluetooth rubbish into a cocked hat.

Portable systems also look seriously naff, and you end up with wires all over the place and having to carry it around with you whenever you park!

OK, so properly installed systems do have an external aerial, but still need to see 4 satellites to work.

Finally, Your car may well be broken into even if it is just the sucker marks that the burglars can see on your windscreen.

If you really need navigation (especially in cities) get the one with PCM, or use this fact to get some money off the one without, and spend the cash on a getting it retro-fitted (Techquipment)

 

[Carrera4S]

Manufacturer systems have the invaluable benefit of knowing where you are when the receiver can't see enough satellites (needs to be at least 4 in different directions). The times this will matter will be when you are surrounded by tall buildings and with a double-decker bus on either side - i.e. when you need it most, in the city! Also, the Americans switch off the satellites occasionally (I once drove all the way back from Monaco on a beautiful clear night, with no signal on either TomTom or PCM), and don't work too well in heavy rain and fog (has to be line of sight - with no metal or solid objects inbetween): Don't forget that if the aerial is inside the car (on a portable unit) it will only be able to see satellites visible through the glass - not the roof or pillars.

All of the fitted systems have either a speedo feed (ie. Becker) or an internal gyro (Kenwood etc) which can sense the speed and direction you are going when satellite signals are intermittant.

Even the Porsche aerial is under a plastic cover, in the passenger compartment beneath the windscreen.

 

[voya pavlovic]

All this presumes PCM with CD navigation, which covers both 1 and 2.

Personally, I would not buy any car over about £25,000 without a manufacturer installed navigation system - period.

If navigation is good (ie dvd one on merc with properly integrated phone) I'd agree. PCM is useless. #mv PCM /dev/null.

The times this will matter will be when you are surrounded by tall buildings and with a double-decker bus on either side - i.e. when you need it most, in the city!

I'm in London and most of my clients are, and the only time when I don't have at least 5 sats (again on merc comand) is when I'm in the tunnel.

Also, the Americans switch off the satellites occasionally (I once drove all the way back from Monaco on a beautiful clear night, with no signal on either TomTom or PCM), and don't work too well in heavy rain and fog

Rain and fog impairing satellite reception ?!? Must be that only my uber-aerial is unaffected.

Having used TMC extensively on clients cars, I now always either switch it off or ignore it - it is CRAP! I am fed up of being diverted off of motorways and then finding out that the problem was smoke blowing over two lanes 4 hours earlier, and then running straight into a monster traffic jam on a minor road (that isn't recorded on TMC) because of all the other TMC users doing the same!

In my experience TMC is the best thing since slice bread (well maybe after PSE too). It gives you an option to either ignore it or to re-route you.
Of course providing that you have dual tuner , where one of them locks onto TMC carrier (CLASSIC FM in UK), I find that all information is pretty much upto date (time ?).


One other very important thing. CD Based systems are inherently SLOW (caps intended). They are yesterdays technology , for crying out loud pcm1 still has tape player (on > £25k car). Please do try PIONEER or equivalent, they do put others to shame.

And last but not least, have you seen pictures of Richards install ? Now thats how the system should look. Oh and, Richard please correct me here if I'm wrong, it cost less then retrofitting PCM at OPC.


Different era, different technology. If you still disagree I do have ZX spectrum that I can sell for, lets say couple of years worth of OPC warranty. Its very OEM.


Regards Voya


PS Note to PIONEER . I DO want that free navigation damnit!

 

[alan sweeney]

Hi Voya,

Totally agree with you. Avic gear is the mutts. PCM 1 and 2 are now outdated and are less of a deal breaker.

The number of after market installs now on 996's has been quite prolific. Go back 14 months and it was rare.

Regards Alan

 

[Wattie]

In my experience TMC is the best thing since slice bread (well maybe after PSE too). It gives you an option to either ignore it or to re-route you.
Of course providing that you have dual tuner , where one of them locks onto TMC carrier (CLASSIC FM in UK), I find that all information is pretty much upto date (time ?).

One day you will find out the hard way... TMC only records information on major routes (i.e. those with blue or green cameras, or ones used by Eddie Stobart trucks, National Express coaches and I think Tescos artics). So if there is a problem on them, TMC will divert you onto roads with no recorded problems: That could be because they are major roads relatively clear of traffic, or it could be minor roads with no traffic problems REPORTED - but then there are no records on those roads anyway, so it could lead you into just about anything!

Also TMC information is only in real time where the road is visible to a camera, elsewhere they have to wait for traffic reports from trucks, police, etc, when the chances are you are already stuck in the hold-up being reported!

One other very important thing. CD Based systems are inherently SLOW (caps intended). They are yesterdays technology , for crying out loud pcm1 still has tape player (on > £25k car). Please do try PIONEER or equivalent, they do put others to shame.

OK, I agree it is a lot slower than DVD, but DVD systems still aren't perfect - for example, Denso systems will still try to take you through Chelmsford Town Centre rather than the A12 Chelmsford bypass - as they calculate average speeds will be faster: My PCM1 keeps me on the bypass, which saves at least 1/2 hour most times of day!

Different era, different technology. If you still disagree I do have ZX spectrum that I can sell for, lets say couple of years worth of OPC warranty. Its very OEM.

Very funny... :lol:

Regards Voya


PS Note to PIONEER . I DO want that free navigation damnit!

Voya, I am not a stupid person, I have an honours degree in Automotive Engineering, I am an ex MENSA member, and I use manufacturer OEM sat nav systems (including Mercedes) on a daily basis as well as TomTom, Autoroute and my PCM1...

I also have experience of other retro-fit systems (but not the Pioneer one admittedly) and I am just stating my informed opinions on here: Just because you happen to think differently (and are trying to blag yourself a Pioneer system) doesn't make me an idiot, so please do not try to ridicule me.

 

[Carrera4S]

Voya, I am not a stupid person, I have an honours degree in Automotive Engineering, I am an ex MENSA member, and I use manufacturer OEM sat nav systems (including Mercedes) on a daily basis as well as TomTom, Autoroute and my PCM1...

I also have experience of other retro-fit systems (but not the Pioneer one admittedly) and I am just stating my informed opinions on here: Just because you happen to think differently (and are trying to blag yourself a Pioneer system) doesn't make me an idiot, so please do not try to ridicule me.

Errr, as a bystander in this I didn't 'read' in his reply anything that ridiculed you. From your reply a little 'blowing your own trumpet' comes to mind

 

[Gastro]

Voya, I am not a stupid person, I have an honours degree in Automotive Engineering, I am an ex MENSA member, and I use manufacturer OEM sat nav systems (including Mercedes) on a daily basis as well as TomTom, Autoroute and my PCM1...

I also have experience of other retro-fit systems (but not the Pioneer one admittedly) and I am just stating my informed opinions on here: Just because you happen to think differently (and are trying to blag yourself a Pioneer system) doesn't make me an idiot, so please do not try to ridicule me.

Errr, as a bystander in this I didn't 'read' in his reply anything that ridiculed you. From your reply a little 'blowing your own trumpet' comes to mind

Moz in disguise......... LOL :twisted:

 

[Carrera4S]

Voya, I am not a stupid person, I have an honours degree in Automotive Engineering, I am an ex MENSA member, and I use manufacturer OEM sat nav systems (including Mercedes) on a daily basis as well as TomTom, Autoroute and my PCM1...

I also have experience of other retro-fit systems (but not the Pioneer one admittedly) and I am just stating my informed opinions on here: Just because you happen to think differently (and are trying to blag yourself a Pioneer system) doesn't make me an idiot, so please do not try to ridicule me.

Errr, as a bystander in this I didn't 'read' in his reply anything that ridiculed you. From your reply a little 'blowing your own trumpet' comes to mind

Moz in disguise......... LOL :twisted:

Tut, tut :wink:

 

[Rob J]

Moz in disguise......... LOL :twisted:

he's not lurking too is he?? :lol:

So back to the debate in hand.....for what it's woth I think the Tom-tom type units are far the better option. If I was in the market for a 2nd hand 911 I really wouldn't be fussed about it having SAtNav or not built in. It would add no value to me. For the amount of time I NEED Satnav a TomTom that gives me handsfree with my mobile is perfect. Plus when it breaks as it will...as will the built in unit...it's far cheaper to replace. I have a built in unit in the RRS, basically because there was no choice & to be honest I find it clearer & better than the TomTom, but I dread the day when it packs up...as it will....becasue I'll then be left with a huge bill to replace it.

 

[Gastro]

Whatever the virtues of a car having a factory OEM Satnav system - its all down to individual requirements. Most of us don't need them - we prefer driving (even if it is in the wrong direction !)

The cost of this option is expensive especially when other units can be bought aftermarket and do as good if not better job - lets be clear about it. I think they can help resaleability but not residual values IMHO.

With the latest generation of 997's - PCM is a must. But for older cars - less important.

Has anyone used PCM I ? Its dreadful.
PCM II is ok - but me personally I had other priorities in my budget to get the right car....

 

[martynb]

Whatever the virtues of a car having a factory OEM Satnav system - its all down to individual requirements. Most of us don't need them - we prefer driving (even if it is in the wrong direction !)

The cost of this option is expensive especially when other units can be bought aftermarket and do as good if not better job - lets be clear about it. I think they can help resaleability but not residual values IMHO.

With the latest generation of 997's - PCM is a must. But for older cars - less important.

Has anyone used PCM I ? Its dreadful.
PCM II is ok - but me personally I had other priorities in my budget to get the right car....

I've recently made that decision and of the x3 I was looking at I bought the one without PCM. It wasn't a major influence but as has already been said if you want a camera detector then you don't need half of your console taken up by a load of out-of-date old tat and removing it was a consideration.

It is possible to wire them neatly and I would rather have the screen in my peripheral sight than have to look at a screen down by my left knee to make sense of what The Voice has just told me about a complex intersection :?

 

[Parts]

Whatever the virtues of a car having a factory OEM Satnav system - its all down to individual requirements. Most of us don't need them - we prefer driving (even if it is in the wrong direction !)

LOL - so true

 

[Maxie]

Wattie - I don't think Voya was trying to make you or anyone look stupid. From reading his posts (here and on other threads) I don't think he has ever tried to (and no - I don't personally know Voya except through here). More like he's tried to be humorous and comes over as a half-decent person much like yourself 8) .

PCM2 - Have you guys read the PCM manual? I mean all of it? It's actually not a bad thing to use. I have read the manual 2 or 3 times over and there is loads this unit can do (I concede, apart from reading postcodes). I am very glad I bought a car with this in it but of course don't deny that that later technology systems (as described by some of you here) are probably superior.

~ Maxie