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Interesting EVO article on 993 handling

orangecurry

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Porsche 911 Carrera 2
The Porsche 911. Some of you will probably own one of these. Lucky sods. A few more of you will have driven one at some point. But I'm willing to bet that most of you are just like me, a nine-eleven virgin. Of course over the last seven years I've read all about evo's love affair with Stuttgart's finest export (even been mildly irritated that it's won so many eCOTYs) so I sort of feel I know it already, but I want to drive it myself. I want to find out just why these guys love it so much.

The Porsche 911. Some of you will probably own one of these. Lucky sods. A few more of you will have driven one at some point. But I'm willing to bet that most of you are just like me, a nine-eleven virgin. Of course over the last seven years I've read all about evo's love affair with Stuttgart's finest export (even been mildly irritated that it's won so many eCOTYs) so I sort of feel I know it already, but I want to drive it myself. I want to find out just why these guys love it so much.
What's more, I want a proper 911 experience, I don't want purists to say 'of course, that water-cooled, PASM-loaded 997 you drove is a bit of a pansies' car, not a real 911'. So when our air-cooled, upright-screened 993 sidled into the fast fleet car park it was an opportunity too good to miss.

There are, however, nagging doubts. The 911 has a reputation. I may be young, but I'm old enough to know that the 911 has inherent handling traits that have seen many a more experienced driver than me heading backwards into a ditch faster than you can say rear-engined, particularly if the roads are a little slippery. So I need help, and the man for the job is John Lyon. The ex-Para, who now runs the High Performance Car driving course, has won over 200 races, been an instructor at the police driving school at Hendon and once chauffeured Fangio. He first drove a 911 in 1965 and has been behind the wheel of pretty much every incarnation since.

We've got quite a day planned. Millbrook in the morning, then a dash across country to MIRA and the wet handling circles before chasing the light back to the office. Hopefully all before Harry leaves his inner sanctum and realises the 911 isn't in the car park. Best get on with it then.

So what strikes you in those first few miles of 911 motoring? Once you've settled into the slim-hipped seats, the rev-counter dominates the five circles in front of you. The floor-hinged pedals are positioned absolutely immaculately for heel and toeing - you almost feel the designers would be offended if you didn't. The smooth black steering wheel is upright and quite large of diameter, but it's slim enough of rim not to feel cumbersome.

The flat-six's bassy, hollow dubba dubba dubba seems to be right with you inside the cabin. It's so deep-chested you'd swear there are more than six cylinders back there. The engine continues to hold your attention too, because although at tentative speeds the 911 proves remarkably easy to drive, as you accelerate there's always the unusual sensation of someone pushing you in the small of the back. It's tractable too, but once the oil's warmed through and you head to the top of the rev-range, the exhaust note turns more metallic as it gulps in air; you're crossing the bridge to supercar pace.

The steering pad at Millbrook is essentially a barren concrete wasteland with circles within circles painted on its surface. The idea is to drive round and round like a dog chasing its tail and discover what the car will do at the limit with acres of run-off to inspire confidence. And what does the fearsome 911 do initially? Understeer. Between about 38 and 40mph the front end's limit is gradually breached. At first you can apply more lock and the nose will come back to you, which seems curious, but eventually it will wash completely wide. Apply more power and you just continue to rip tread off the front tyres. So you lift off. This is where things can become interesting. If you lift off gently then you'll bring it all back into line and continue going around the circle, making yourself dizzy. However, if you back off sharply and completely then even on the abrasive concrete the back end will swing around. You feel it coming, slowly at first as it gathers force. Then it tugs the back wheels loose. Lyon says you can prevent lift-off oversteer by instantly taking off an eighth of a turn of lock, but this has to be predictive rather than reactive and takes practice. It's initially easy to catch the 993 when it oversteers but the bite really comes if you don't straighten the wheel again quickly enough. Take the lock off again in a flash or the momentum will overtake you much faster than before and you'll be at the mercy of the pendulum behind you.

According to Lyon, the trick on the track is to brake hard into a corner, working the front-end grip to hook it into the turn, and then play a waiting game until the exit, when the wheels are straightening and you can use full throttle and all of the huge traction to push you down the next straight.

After a quick demo on the wonderful Hill route, it's off up to MIRA. For the sake of time-saving we take the M1 for a couple of junctions. Even here you realise the car is always talking to you. The steering is moving gently in your hands, the 911 stable yet fluid beneath you. The wind moves the car around as well, exaggerated by the weight in the tail.

The circles at MIRA are designed to simulate varying levels of slipperiness. The innermost is ice, then comes mushy snow, and finally a normal wet road. We start off on ice. We steadily increase speed - and then quite suddenly the big pendulum behind starts to swing. So why is this happening? The 993 has a front anti-roll bar (unlike the first 911s) and in the dry this actually reduces front-end grip, meaning it will understeer first, as we discovered at Millbrook. However, in very slippery conditions (i.e. on ice) the effect of the anti-roll bar is negated because the car won't dig into the surface at either end. Roll stiffness is effectively 100 per cent all round. So in these conditions the 911 falls straight into oversteer - the weight simply pushes straight on as speed increases, swinging the tail wide.

Steer into it quickly, lift off to bring the speed down and the car straightens. Obviously that didn't happen the first time I tried, and there was more arm-flailing than I would have liked on the second attempt too, but after a while I did manage one entire loop sideways. Lyon, of course, can sit sideways until the tank runs dry, which is both deeply impressive and hugely irritating.

Biggest surprise is when he advocates the use of the brakes in a slide. In the middle of a big lift-off oversteer moment, just when you think everything has gone too far, stamping on the brakes is the last thing I would have thought it sensible to do. Yet hit the ABS as hard as you can and everything just stops. No spinning tops or violent exacerbations. You just stop. And frequently pointing the right way. It's a last line of defence that you feel could have saved numerous 911 pilots had they known about it.

By the end of the day I've certainly found, grappled with and breached the 911's limits, but I still don't feel I could just jump in and drive the Bridgestones off it, far from it. I ask John what he would have said if I'd phoned and asked for just one piece of advice before driving the 911. 'Be gentle with your inputs,' is his reply. And that sums it up really. The 911 won't suffer fools gladly, it commands respect. You've got to work at it, however skilful you are. And that's why drivers love it so much.

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evolongtermtests/62695/porsche_911_carrera_2.html

car_photo_23026_7.jpg
 
I really want to do a driving lesson one day :)
 
If you think your driving can be improved then get on John Lyon's course. It'll be hard work as he will deconstruct you 1st then mould your style & technique in his image. Some don't like his approach, as it's a bit like you're in the Army, but buckle down & obey because that's when you start to improve.

I've met John, & know a fair few who've done his HPC course. His course is on my to-do list......
 
Very interesting thanks

The braking in a slide goes against everything I have had hard coded in to me over the many years of driving very tail happy 205 GTI's, therefore I can't imagine I'll ever think to do that in a moment of crisis.

I like to think of myself as a pretty good fast driver, but to be honest the 911 has me a little worried. So far I have been unable to upset it one bit, as it just grips and turns in so effortlessly. What bothers me is that just beyond my usually slightly cautious pace it's tail swinging time.

Normally I would just drive the backside off a car until I feel confident chucking it around. This approach is well and good in a french hot hatch, but testing the limits in something I cherish so dearly is going to really hold me back. Perhaps a 911 handling day is needed :?:
 
I think what the article was trying to convey was once things are hopeless then it's time to plant both feet firmly on the brake & the clutch. Also let go of the steering wheel as well. Surprising how quickly you will stop with the car pointing in the direction of the slide.

By all means learn the skill to correct minor slides but when a spin is ineviatable..................

The oould adage says: "both feet in when going in!"
 
More than happy to swing the tail around a bit after my hullavington day and I would recommend this to everyone. In fact its mandatory.. if you haven't done something similar at some point then you are misisng out big time IMO>

Contrary to that evo article, my car doesn't understeer either.... ever :hand:

On the braking thing, that's one of the great things that Walshy teaches. Lurid oversteer then left foot brake and the car straightens instantly. It works very well on the elises. You are restoring grip to the rear wheels by lowering the speed but at the same time staying on the throttle and to keep the car reasonably level.
 
Allegedly the original original 911 manual suggested to let go of the steering wheel in an emergency oversteer situation.... 'the car will straighten itself'. :eek: :grin: but they removed this advice when the americans started to sue. Allegedly.

jackal2513 said:
On the braking thing, that's one of the great things that Walshy teaches. Lurid oversteer then left foot brake and the car straightens instantly. It works very well on the elises. You are restoring grip to the rear wheels by lowering the speed but at the same time staying on the throttle and to keep the car reasonably level.

I'm having trouble with that - I've used left-food braking on FWD and AWD to force extra grip onto the front tyres by shifting the weight of the car forwards... but that is done by a sharp stab on the brake pedal whilst power is maintained with the right-foot.

For what you suggest to work I assume it's a very gentle application of the brake?
 
not that gentle but not a provoking stab

you ease down progressively on the pedal but obviously not too slowly or it'll be too late
 
Took my young lad for his first sessions of indoor Karting yesterday, little sod was only a second a lap slower than me in the end, but if you like it sideways :grin: its brilliant fun. I like it sideways a bit too much for good lap times, but what the hell!! :D :D
 
Zuffenhausen :O) said:
Took my young lad for his first sessions of indoor Karting yesterday, little sod was only a second a lap slower than me in the end, but if you like it sideways :grin: its brilliant fun. I like it sideways a bit too much for good lap times, but what the hell!! :D :D

+1 for karting! Did a similar with my GF's son, he almost beat me, not good until I remembered he's 13 year old stick thin kid and I'm a 46 year old 13+ Stone guy, weight makes a lot of difference!

To comment on the thread, best thing I ever did was a 1 day driving course with CAT Training, done 2 more since, worth every penny!

P.S. The EVO article is a bit old now, according to the DVLA that car (or just its reg) no longer exist!!

http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/
 
Never got it properly out of shape (apart from once at low speed on ice!), so can't really comment on how it behaves or how easy it is to catch when it's sideways - can't imagine it's too easy.

Did almost lose it once at speed when it was on 17's, but managed to correct the twitch before the back properly kicked out. I might not have been so lucky if it was riding on the (current) 18's...

Mine does understeer a bit when you get on the power too early, but it's a very lively and communicative car to drive and I would like to explore its limits a little more - in a safe environment ;)
 
I've spun mine a lot, though, fingers crossed I generally catch it these days. I find them very communicative and generally quite feasible to recover. Biggest problem is usually unwinding the lock fast enough after you have caught a slide.

Fairly soon after getting the car I did Don Palmer's Limit Handling day and it was excellent, well worth the money.

Also highly recommended are Andy Walsh's Carlimits days. I've done one of his activity days and wasn't overly keen, but I gather the "proper" days are better.
 
Tertius said:
I've spun mine a lot, though, fingers crossed I generally catch it these days. I find them very communicative and generally quite feasible to recover. Biggest problem is usually unwinding the lock fast enough after you have caught a slide.

Fairly soon after getting the car I did Don Palmer's Limit Handling day and it was excellent, well worth the money.

Also highly recommended are Andy Walsh's Carlimits days. I've done one of his activity days and wasn't overly keen, but I gather the "proper" days are better.

Nice to hear you are still about Dan :)
Have you sold your baby??
 

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