Car-maker VW in cheating in emissions test shocker

[Alex]

This whole episode is a witch hunt, probably driven by the American oil (and car) companies due to their profits being down.

It's a very dangerous game being played and at the end of it all - the general public will be the ones who suffer.

 

[rottenbend]

This whole episode is a witch hunt, probably driven by the American oil (and car) companies due to their profits being down.

My thoughts exactly

 

[rottenbend]

The guys that wrote the code are obviously brilliant engineers. The requirement given to them was "Make sure this engine flies through the emissions test" so they did.

It's not their fault that the test is irrelevant to real world driving. Perhaps the test should be realistic?

The whole things stinks. Class action in the UK. Why? What damage has been done to the consumer?

 

[Shurv]

The yanks will always do everything they can to protect their own car industry. VW have been caught cheating, in a very big way, without this software, they wouldn't have sold all those cars, and made the profits they did. VW sell themselves on a very solid reputation for quality and reliability. Not sure what this is going to do to that. Many of their customers will be very unhappy at driving a car which the manufacturer has deliberately hoodwinked customers and governments. Already customers are cancelling orders, residual values will drop significantly ,as other dealers won't want to have a used VW on their forecourt in case they can't sell it on.
The EU will no doubt try to bury it, as it needs Germany to have a strong economy, and the other German car makers may not be safe either.
Interestingly, there is one car maker who has stopped making small diesel engines (2 ltr and below)as it couldn't engineer them to be clean enough at a price that was economical to do. They now buy their small diesels from BMW. Perhaps that should say, couldn't make them clean without cheating. There's a lot of water left to go under this particular bridge. VW is too big to go under from this, but it will eat into their future R&D budgets etc.
The anti diesel brigade will have a field day with this lot. I'm watching with interest.

 

[Alex]

This whole thing is b***sh*t.

2 scenarios:

1. Last year I went to Anglesey for the weekend in the GFs Golf. Book says something like 75mpg extra urban and 60mpg combined. On the drive down, car quoted 75mpg and when I brimmed it when I got back averaged 60mpg.

2. Last year I went to St Tropez for the weekend (driving from Nice) in a hybrid Toyota. Book says something like 85mpg extra urban and 85mpg combined. When I brimmed it when I got back to Nice, averaged 32mpg.

Who's doing the hoodwinking? :?:

Anybody who chooses not to buy a VW in recent light of what's gone on is an utter moron.

It's a very dangerous game being played and we (the public) will ultimately lose out.

 

[New997buyer]

Quick question - Didn't the general public who bought the cars gain by paying greatly reduced road tax, eg. £20 instead of £230, due to their 'gaming'?

That doesn't really make sense. Joe Public pays MORE for their VW because they're assuming their car meets legal criteria and also offers higher relative quality than their competitors. This hardly matches that reputation? Isn't there going to be an effect on use VW values in the US?

But it's also irrelevant. They committed fraud at the end of the day. If anyone gains or loses as an unintended consequence of that is surely redundant to the crime?

IMHO - the only people who should be 'sick' of what's gone on here are the Governments and rival companies :dont know:

We have different opinions. I think they broke the law for profit, feck em. I also think if I have to abide by the law so should they. Feck em twice. And I Also think anyone who has built a brand on quality and then fakes that quality while still charging a premium for it deserves to rot. Feck em thrice.

Edit: Oh yes, and the tree huggers.

So it's not a real law as it's an issue you don't agree with? Sure man made climate change is easier to spot than to fix, but does that mean we do nothing?

Edit (again): It's companies like VAG who've put Germany on the map and made it one of Europe's greatest countries, also the flagship of Europe (IMO). How wider societal gain would you prefer - donate all profit to Africa?

Yeah, for quality. But this isn't very high quality, surely?

As for 'wider societal gain', how do you get from that to donating 'all profit to Africa'? Or can't I be a capitalist and think organisation's ought to follow the same rules as the rest of us? You'll need to explain that one to me.....

To be clear on my point. It's that laws are often passed that are inconvenient but well intentioned for the wider benefit. Emissions is just one example. If legislation is intended to reduce harmful emmissions then so be it. The smoking ban isn't popular but we know it has public health benefits. Same with seat belts. And crash safety for vehicles. And so on.

And large corporates are constantly whispering in the ear of politicians to avert legislation on things that benefit the many, just to to suit their financially motivated interests. And they also flaunt laws to suit themselves as well. I don't subscribe to a notion that profit should come before anything else, regardless of the consequence. I think profit should be made, but not at a cost to wider society. :thumb:

 

[isysman]

Americans always throw stones in glass houses.

As Chris Harris say: "Already tiring of VW-gate. They lied, will be punished. But they didn't invade countries/***** stuff like the governments now condemning them"

 

[New997buyer]

The yanks will always do everything they can to protect their own car industry. VW have been caught cheating, in a very big way, without this software, they wouldn't have sold all those cars, and made the profits they did. VW sell themselves on a very solid reputation for quality and reliability. Not sure what this is going to do to that. Many of their customers will be very unhappy at driving a car which the manufacturer has deliberately hoodwinked customers and governments. Already customers are cancelling orders, residual values will drop significantly ,as other dealers won't want to have a used VW on their forecourt in case they can't sell it on.
The EU will no doubt try to bury it, as it needs Germany to have a strong economy, and the other German car makers may not be safe either.
Interestingly, there is one car maker who has stopped making small diesel engines (2 ltr and below)as it couldn't engineer them to be clean enough at a price that was economical to do. They now buy their small diesels from BMW. Perhaps that should say, couldn't make them clean without cheating. There's a lot of water left to go under this particular bridge. VW is too big to go under from this, but it will eat into their future R&D budgets etc.
The anti diesel brigade will have a field day with this lot. I'm watching with interest.

:agree:

 

[New997buyer]

But they didn't invade countries/***** stuff like the governments now condemning them"

VW didn't invade countries, indeed, but they did do a very fetching 'African Edition' model in the 1940's......

 

[Alex]

I'd still buy a VW over most other stuff on the market as I know it'd be doing a lot less damage to the world than the others.

Where's the most important measure within these emissions criteria - the one that measures damage when the pedals depressed?

The whole criteria doesn't suit the nature of what the car does when your driving it. It's nonsensical. I got better mpg driving 1100 miles in a 911 doing 85mph than I did in a cr4ppy hybrid.

 

[New997buyer]

I'd still buy a VW over most other stuff on the market as I know it'd be doing a lot less damage to the world than the others.

Where's the most important measure within these emissions criteria - the one that measures damage when the pedals depressed?

The whole criteria doesn't suit the nature of what the car does when your driving it. It's nonsensical. I got better mpg driving 1100 miles in a 911 doing 85mph than I did in a cr4ppy hybrid.

Ironically Alex it's running an older car that is best fir the environment. It's the building of the car that does the most harm environmentally.

My 30,000 miles (so far) in my 14 year old turbo are the most environmentally friendly I've ever done :thumb: :grin:

 

[Alex]

:grin:

Why else would you buy one :dont know:

:thumb: :lol:

 

[997 Coast]

Too much moral ground hand wringing in my estimation

Once politicians start talking ethics I just :floor:

The media being some of the worst culprits with a ' let's interview a so called motor industry expert ' brief

 

[Shurv]

Alex, it's got nothing to do with fuel consumption, it's about harmful pollutants. VW cheated the tests and their cars were approved and sold in large numbers on the back of the test results. I read that nox outputs were 40x greater in reality than the test outputs. It is quite simply fraud. Yes, your golf may do loads of mpg's, but it might also be chucking out dangerous levels of pollutants, which if factored in at the start, may have meant that car wouldn't have been able to be put on sale.
God knows what you were doing in that Prius to get 32 mpg, last time I drove one, with a load of city centre crawling, and 100 miles of 80 to 90mph motorway, I averaged 59mpg. I tried a Yaris hybrid and got 68mpg out of that in mixed driving. Hybrids need a specific driving style, if you drive them like a normal auto, you won't get the economy.
It's interesting this topic, we are already quite divided in what our opinions are of how we feel about it, and if VW have, in our eyes, done much wrong. VW's customers will also, I imagine, be divided in the same way,but a brand that's sold itself on being trustworthy, has now a lot of damage limitation to do.

 

[Fox Terrier]

Nobody seems to have directly mentioned the loss of tax revenues to the Government - (rather than the tax benefit to consumers). I'm not sure the Inland Revenue will just laugh it off and I'm sure the American tax agency won't.

and I also agree with everything new996buyer says on this :thumb: