997.1 Turbo buying advice

[997fanboi]

Hi all

Thinking of buying a 997.1 turbo but the more I read the more I think there are some fundamental engine issues waiting for attention.

My research so far takes me to spun camshaft sleeves, coolant pipes corroding and popping off and turbos needing replacing. All seemingly BIG repair costs and from what I've read can happen even at 20k, over revs or not....

So, what is the realistic verdict here? Is the risk real? How much is this all going to cost me do at an experienced specialist? In any case, I'm generally not a fan of someone dropping the most valuable part of the car out and replumbing everything

Thanks in advance. :?:

 

[easternjets]

Hello Fanboi, welcome to 911uk.

I'm going to tell you what I think most people will say so I'll keep it brief.

The Turbo's are very reliable but the gen 1's are starting to get old so you'll need to check most of those things and the only proper way is to get it inspected by either an OPC or a very good Indy.

Check full history
No skipping on things like plug changes when they're due, expensive and if the owner hasn't done them an indication it's been avoided due to cost
For a little more money you can get a Gen 2
If your one of the 'I must have a manual' buyers then drive a PDK.
If the car looks wrong or feels as if it's been neglected walk away.

There are lots and lots of discussions on here about this very model of car.

Good hunting.

 

[T8]

:welcome: to 911uk

I don't know where you have done your reading and I don't doubt that someone, somewhere will have experienced the issues that you describe.

BUT

All I can say is that I know/have known a couple of dozen 997.1 Turbo owners and even more than that who have had 996 Turbos (with fundamentally the same engine) and I don't know of any that have had any engine issues - other than odd oil leaks.

Any Gen1 997 will be at least 13 years old but there are a lot of 21 year old and/or high mileage 996s out there that will never have needed any engine work. I would expect any turbocharged car to need some turbo maintenance/replacement at some time but that's a fact of life if a turbo is the car you want. Coolant pipes were an issue on 996s but less so on the 997.

By now you'll have guessed that I'm a fan as I went 911 turbo 8 years ago and have never regretted it for a second. The only problem I have is knowing that I'll never own another car which gives me so much value for money. Trust me, it's not a bad problem to have.

As has already been said, a full service history done to, at least, scheduled dates and/or mileage is key. An independent PPI is always recommended and if you can get one done by a turbo specialist all the better.

You don't mention your car ownership history or your budget but if you're used to anything less than 350 bhp and have £40k-£55k I couldn't advise you to go for anything else - assuming of course that you accept that such cars can't be run on a shoestring.

A Gen2 car will be newer but will cost quite a lot more (£55k+) and if you want a manual you won't find many to choose from.

Happy Hunting

:thumb:

 

[T8]

I'm surprised that no-one else has chipped in on this.

I spent quite a while today doing some research and didn't find anything engine related that would put me off buying a 997 Turbo.

The camshaft issue seems to be something that was reported in the US but I couldn't find much about it. Maybe it was a modified/tuned car. :dont know:

 

[crash7]

I have owned several, have never had an issue with any and as T8 has commented, never heard anyone speak of a spun cam.

You could not be further from the truth when you state that there are 'fundamental engine issues' - There may be wear and tear or age related / end of component life issues, which on a circa 15 year old car can be expected.

 

[Turboornotturbo]

Having bought one (gen 1 manual) and replaced the turbos on it plus a lot of other stuff to get it perfect I would be wary of low milage examples that haven't had this done. I wish someone had told me that when I was looking for mine but all I read was people saying they were bomb proof etc. Fortunately I bought mine privately for the right money and since the work was done three years ago it has been great. Good luck with the search.

 

[IMI A]

There are a few weaknesses on a now 14 year old 997.1 turbo:-

Rads
Coolant pipes
Condensors
Turbos
Turbo actuators (cheap fix)
gear synchro on manuals
clutch, accumulator and slave
Steering rack leaks
Starter motors


All common issues and easily fixable but many of the jobs engine out. Most should have had these things sorted by now. I'd personally only buy one from an OPC or well known indy.

If you've got good one hang on to it as good high milers rare as hens teeth. Anyone that is looking maybe buy the Cameron cars GT Silver car. One of the best on the market. If you don't mind a tip perhaps buy the 911 virgin cab. £65k may seem dear but if a few things go wrong on a 60k mile £50,000 997 turbo you're up to £65k spend in a flash any way. May as well buy the best car you can afford for £65k in the first place is my philosophy.

 

[IMI A]

US cars do seem to be prone to spun camshaft sleeves.

Be good to hear if anyone in UK has had the dreaded spun camshaft sleeves issue.

 

[Slayer]

A good inspection and buy it.
3 years, 65 K miles, nothing major happened apart from starting motor and Turbo actuators.

 

[snb993]

Hi
Having had my 996T for 15 years, i have in the last few weeks sold it (in just 36 hours!) and bought a 997T Gen1 manual, PCCB and with 34K miles. Over the previous 2 months, I missed out on 3 from dealers who seem to be very busy with them

I deliberately wanted a Gen1 manual having had such a lot of fun with the 996T and am absolutely delighted with it

I had never heard of the spun cam sleeves before your post...

As above on the other items which i expected and so they changed the AC condensers, front coolant pipes, major service before collecting it plus a full warranty which then gives peace of mind

Good luck with your purchase :thumb:


(I need to update my signature :grin: )

 

[easternjets]

Reading the OP's first post again I think the seeds of doubt have been firmly planted.
Why would he not be a 'fan' of having the most valuable part of the car removed and 're-plumbed', after all the age of car he's looking at it is either going to need the coolant pipes removing and replacing or will do soon.
I can list the most common issues, some of which happened to me on my first gen 1 car but which I fixed myself.

1. Corroded coolant pipes, or actually not the pipes but the alloy connector cups that corrode and split, never heard of them 'popping off' but I suppose they could if they were neglected long enough. If the ones above the engine are leaking then yes the engine will need dropping out.
2. Water pump, starts to weep and drip on the N/S rear of engine, you think it's a loose pipe but it's actually the main bearing. Pumps aren't expensive if you source them from Autodoc and their pump is OEM.
3. Tandem oil pumps, it's the cover that corrodes and this needs replacing, not a big job but again the part can be expensive.
4. Coil packs and plugs, always neglected and a sod of a job to do on an older car as it requires removal of rear end and exhaust.
5. Manifolds leaking, exhaust manifolds can split and this is an MOT fail, do this job when your doing the plugs.
6. Turbo units corroding, seems to happen but not a very common problem, again expensive to fix but a few people upgrade the turbo's to hybrids.
7. Radiators, common fault is not to clean out the front intakes, this means leaves and debris collects, water soaks them and it's the perfect condition for corrosion.
8. Air Con condensers, did these on both cars, easy job to do, cost about £250 for all the parts. Tip here is once a year whip off the front bumper shroud and clean them out, about an hour and a half's work.
9. Brakes, when you've got a lot of go you need a lot of Woooo, especially on the Turbo, TBH the Turbo's brakes are not the best unless you have PCCB's, easy change if they're steel.
10. Exhaust system on Gen 1 is very restrictive, an upgrade makes a huge difference but will cost you about £2000 up to £4000.
11. Interior on the Gen 1 is getting very dated now so you might want to upgrade the PCM.

If you weren't put off before you probably will be now!

Personally I'd buy a well sorted Gen 2 with a good history, I sold my last one for less than a gen 1 manual and it was faultless. By the way you only get over revv's on the manuals and you'd need to go to an OPC or very good Indy to see if the over revvs are a problem. The PDK can show over rev's but they're not looked at or of concern.

 

[umirza85]

Reading the OP's first post again I think the seeds of doubt have been firmly planted.
Why would he not be a 'fan' of having the most valuable part of the car removed and 're-plumbed', after all the age of car he's looking at it is either going to need the coolant pipes removing and replacing or will do soon.
I can list the most common issues, some of which happened to me on my first gen 1 car but which I fixed myself.

1. Corroded coolant pipes, or actually not the pipes but the alloy connector cups that corrode and split, never heard of them 'popping off' but I suppose they could if they were neglected long enough. If the ones above the engine are leaking then yes the engine will need dropping out.
2. Water pump, starts to weep and drip on the N/S rear of engine, you think it's a loose pipe but it's actually the main bearing. Pumps aren't expensive if you source them from Autodoc and their pump is OEM.
3. Tandem oil pumps, it's the cover that corrodes and this needs replacing, not a big job but again the part can be expensive.
4. Coil packs and plugs, always neglected and a sod of a job to do on an older car as it requires removal of rear end and exhaust.
5. Manifolds leaking, exhaust manifolds can split and this is an MOT fail, do this job when your doing the plugs.
6. Turbo units corroding, seems to happen but not a very common problem, again expensive to fix but a few people upgrade the turbo's to hybrids.
7. Radiators, common fault is not to clean out the front intakes, this means leaves and debris collects, water soaks them and it's the perfect condition for corrosion.
8. Air Con condensers, did these on both cars, easy job to do, cost about £250 for all the parts. Tip here is once a year whip off the front bumper shroud and clean them out, about an hour and a half's work.
9. Brakes, when you've got a lot of go you need a lot of Woooo, especially on the Turbo, TBH the Turbo's brakes are not the best unless you have PCCB's, easy change if they're steel.
10. Exhaust system on Gen 1 is very restrictive, an upgrade makes a huge difference but will cost you about £2000 up to £4000.
11. Interior on the Gen 1 is getting very dated now so you might want to upgrade the PCM.

If you weren't put off before you probably will be now!

Personally I'd buy a well sorted Gen 2 with a good history, I sold my last one for less than a gen 1 manual and it was faultless. By the way you only get over revv's on the manuals and you'd need to go to an OPC or very good Indy to see if the over revvs are a problem. The PDK can show over rev's but they're not looked at or of concern.

Wow this is a great post thanks for sharing. I'm looking to get a 996 Turbo x50 or 997.1 Turbo (leaning towards 997 due to availability really...). Ive found a few that are quite a distance so obviously want a PPI done. I've really just taken my C4S to indy's but for whatever reason if thats not an option would you think an OPC would do just as thorough a job? I had taken my car when bought to an OPC and as it was a while ago details are hazy but i dont really remember being impressed.

 

[James4444]

Bought our 997T Gen 1 manual 34k miles in 2014. It now has 46k miles.

in that time, its had

- new starter motor
- new coils
- new engine temperature sensor
- new aircon rad and regas
- something else with the aircon that i can't remember, but needed a new part and regas
- new discs and pads all round
- some other minor inexpensive things.

One of the horns doesn't work, so that'll need replacing eventually.

Has been fully serviced and looked after by Northway Porsche who did most of the work above.

I could go through all the invoices, but I'd say all of that with servicing has probably cost £6-£8k. so about a £1k a year on 'maintenance and repairs'.

 

[umirza85]

I'm surprised that no-one else has chipped in on this.

I spent quite a while today doing some research and didn't find anything engine related that would put me off buying a 997 Turbo.

The camshaft issue seems to be something that was reported in the US but I couldn't find much about it. Maybe it was a modified/tuned car. :dont know:

Also thinking of picking up a 997.1 Turbo but its quite far away so not sure how to get a PPI done. Any tips here? There is an indy or two nearby along with an OPC. Can i somehow get the OPC to do the PPI and send me the results or would it be better to be up there when its being done. I'd only consider getting a PPI for a car I was ready to buy so not sure what the best way to approach this is. thanks for any tips.

 

[darkhorse]

Some good info here but anyone who thinks a car needs only OPC history to be worth buying is completely misguided. I have rebuilt mine (ok I do have extensive kit car /other car build experience) and would guarantee its in better mechanical fettle than any similar car with OPC history only.

The reason? OPC do not do preventative maintenance and only address the current fault (in the main). Also, many don't know what they are doing on these cars now as they are getting OLD considering they run from 06 so 16 years old.

The engines are very solid but regardless of mileage and servicing, rubber pipes get brittle, as do o-rings, and things can cause issues due to age as much as anything else.

You will inevitably run into some big bills with one of these if you get a 'bad un' so finding one with all the work done I would say would be a better idea than one with just OPC stamps and nothing major done. (unless your looking at the super low mile bracket eg sub 30k)
If it hasn't been done yet, it will need to be done at some point particularly if the car is used more than once a year.

Turbos are becoming more of an issue on UK cars (that have seen winter action) due to corroded exhaust housings (just ask a good indy about that) .

Spoilers failing can be an expensive issue to rectify,
Brake pipes can be starting to look a big dubious at this age in certain places on the car.
Coolant X over pipes and the other Coolant pipes as mentioned
Expansion tanks can need replacing
Brake Calipers at 14 years old can be getting sticky pistons (£1300 to have mine rebuilt by Pro Caliper)
Intercoolers can be holier than holy water.

As far as Cam spinning goes that is not an issue that seems to be common in the UK, and the coolant pipe stubs leaking; when I did mine only the one near the water pump was slightly dubious, the others were welded in but it is hit and miss on that one but a very good local Indy I speak to sometimes says he does not really get that problem through the door.