996 C4(s) curious.

[BillyMct]

Hi Newbie alert . Very tempted to slide into a 996 at some point in the near future (finances/vehicle sales pending) and currently looking at 996 C4/C4S as possible choice. From what I can gather the slim hipped C4 might be a nicer steer than the wide bodied C4S though suspect that if I'm asking that question most will say get a C2? Is there a usable ownership/driving comparison between C4, C4S and how much does the C4 blunt the drive compared to a C2 (lots ?minimal or only noticed on a track day) .
It will be a road (B, A road) car on the bumpy undulating Tar we call roads up in the north in most weathers (well its not dry that often).
My current drives are a Mitsi Evo 9 Wagon and a TVR T350C. One will need to go to make space for a 996 and suspect its will be the load lugger as I've had too much time/emotion invested into the TVR plus it would be a possible his/hers drive (that's my sales pitch for the missus-!?) . I've trawled a lot of the content on engines, fixes, challenges, & understand a rebuild is a possible requirement for high milers to address wear tear on crankshaft bearing (80K+ - subjective?)
I don't want to debate the benefits of 3.4/3.6/ims /bores etc as there's plenty of that here already, but I am wondering how usable the tip is in B/A road use and if its prompt enough (no track use envisaged) compared to manual.
Sorry a bit meandering so probably TLDR. The simple version :-
How much driving differences are there between 996 C4S/C4/C2 and then Tip manual in UK bumpy country roads usage. & I've nothing against a cab but prefer the Coupe lines/lack of pending roof issues.

 

[T8]

:welcome: to 911uk

I had a 996C4 Tiptronic for 3.5 years and loved it.

Regarding the Tiptronic/manual quandary you might find this old thread of interest.

Here -> http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=78825&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=spirited

On the road in most conditions I doubt that you'd notice the 4wd of the C4 over a C2 but in the wet (or even damp) you might appreciate the improved traction.

The C4S is a wonderful looking car but it is definitely less nimble than the narrow bodied cars as it is a lot heavier. It's also considerably more expensive to buy compared to narrow bodied variant.

Happy Hunting :thumbs:

 

[Space Cadet]

Welcome!

I have a manual C4S and although the C2/4 may be slimmer the S really is'nt wide at all compared to modern cars, it (and I presume all 996's) are surprisingly quite cozy inside.

I bought the 4 because I wanted the "all weather" security but bought the 4S simply because of the looks. Am sure you're already aware that they have the Turbo-look wheels and supposedly the Turbo suspension and the Turbo brakes and wider wheel arches (possibly just the rears?).

I'm not suggesting I wouldn't love a Turbo or a GT3, but I just prefer the cleaner look of the C4S (as with the previous 993 and later generations), I think it looks the nicest of the 996s.... Just IMO obviously.

Happy hunting!

 

[Alex]

Worth noting the C4 had a few benefits as standard over the C2 when it was released.
These included:
Strengthened GT3 chassis
Porsche Stability Management (PSM traction control)
Some same front suspension parts as the C4s & turbo.
AWD (obviously) with no detriment to performance according to Porsche
More planted front end due to the heavier weight (something which many owners say they prefer).
Clear light pack.
Plenty of other stuff I can't remember (like the ability to retrofit cruise control and also the last iteration of the M96 engine).

 

[GrafZero]

Yeah, right. Citing old version of 996 page on stuttcars.com, which seems to be more objective about this:

Because of the weight of the rear-mounted engine, the rear-wheel-drive 911s have beaten 4WD cars in rallies, but many customers don't care how mechanical engineering works and they demand 4WD even for a rear-engined car. For some, the "Carrera 4" might give great hopes on the paper, but who has driven the 996 C4 on the snow, can tell that it is rather hard to understand what is going on at the front axle. The Carrera 4 has 60% of the weight at the back, so 40% on the front axle. Every Porsche 356 and 911 was designed to have less grip at front as it is needed more at the back. In normal driving conditions the viscous clutch of the Carrera 4 sends only 5% of the drive power to the front axle and when the rear wheels completely lose grip, up to 40%. Considering the front is light, these numbers have less impact. 40% of the peak drive power times 40% of the weight, translates to around 30% peak drive force on the front axle, but as the front differential has no locking, on a very slippery surface one of the front wheels starts to spin and the other stops, minimizing what the front axle can contribute to the car's forward acceleration. As you cannot benefit from the front wheel traction in a rear-engine 996, so why drag around the 54 kg/120 lb extra weight of the 4WD system?

Another factor that makes the 4WD system in the Carrera 4 even more useless is when the car is fitted with the Tiptronic transmission - in this case there's the torque converter (non-linear power transfer) between the engine and the gearbox in addition to the fact that the central differential has no lock (non-linear power transfer) and there's no front differential lock. A 911 Carrera 4 Tiptronic on a really slippery surface gives its computers a lot to calculate, but the result for the driver is rather useless.

The conclusion on the Carrera 4: you are better off with the real-wheel-drive manual Carrera - this is the original and the best configuration of the 911. Porsche has actually said "We did not intend the all-wheel drive system as an all-weather traction assistant". And "The focus here, however, is not so much on traction, but rather on supreme driving characteristics and safety to the limit". This is rather complicated wording, but you can read that you should not set hopes on the traction at the front axle. Finally, Porsche calls the 4WD in the 911 as the "Drive system of your choice". This is as honest as Porsche can be - they provide the drive on the front axle because the customer insisted it, not because it's worth much.

 

[Alex]

I drive mine in the snow every winter (we get any). On numerous occasions I'll drive up some of my local hills passing Range Rovers and other AWD SUVs stuck.
Then again, I suppose it helps if you know what you're doing. First thing to do is turn the PSM off.

 

[Alex]

From Russia with Subs.

How to drive a 996 tiptronic AWD up an icy hill. No way on this planet a C2 could do that:

https://youtu.be/RnhAcZj0qXM

 

[T8]

I've never driven a 911 on a loose rally type surface and only drove in snow once (when I got caught out by it) so I can't comment regarding how 4wd would be vs 2wd in those conditions.

I do however stick 100% by my previous statement.

On the road in most conditions I doubt that you'd notice the 4wd of the C4 over a C2 but in the wet (or even damp) you might appreciate the improved traction.

I would add though that, in very wet conditions, both cars are equally prone to aquaplaning due to their fat tyres.

If I was ever likely to drive regularly in cold and/or snow I'd fit winter tyres.

 

[MisterCorn]

Worth noting the C4 had a few benefits as standard over the C2 when it was released.
These included:
Strengthened GT3 chassis
Porsche Stability Management (PSM traction control)
Some same front suspension parts as the C4s & turbo.
AWD (obviously) with no detriment to performance according to Porsche
More planted front end due to the heavier weight (something which many owners say they prefer).
Clear light pack.
Plenty of other stuff I can't remember (like the ability to retrofit cruise control and also the last iteration of the M96 engine).

A bit OT, but I was never clear whether the C4 chassis was any stiffer, or if it wasn't just chosen for the GT3 because it meant they could fit a larger tank in the front. This was an option for LHD cars which were used as the basis for the CUP cars.

MC

 

[Bob996]

If you are buying any C4 (S or not )to drive in the snow , it is a waste of money, I have driven in real winters ( not the ones you get in the UK ) Canada in a sports car and 2 or 4 wheel drive will not make much difference on snow or ice if you don't have snow tyres.

In my opinion you should find the best 996 for the money and live with the 2 or 4 wheel drive by limiting your choice you could pass on a good opportunity

 

[Alex]

The OP never mentioned driving it in the snow. :dont know:

 

[GrafZero]

Well, to answer the OP's TLDR questions: 4WD in most non off-road cars is a gimmick (and certainly is on a 20 year old 911, where it is basic as hell). On 996.2 the tiptronic works well with it's 250 different maps, wouldn't ever trade it for manual, even if it's not as quick as current gearboxes.

 

[BillyMct]

Ta for all the info, seems 996 4wd is a bit marmite for some but the tip gets some warm reviews, a little unclear if there are other benefits from having a C4 such as a potentially stiffer shell and PSM?, ie is it benificial or a bit clunky in operation?: - I once had a Lotus Europa (last version based on Elise/VX220) and its ABS was dangerous in the wet as it just let the car carry on with no effective front brakes! they kept being disabled by ABS triggering far too early) .

 

[Alex]

If I didn't have PSM I'd have written mine off at least 10 times by now.

 

[GrafZero]

As far as I remember, the chassis has been strengthened after the .2 lifting, not between C2 and C4 versions. Also all the Carreras have PSM, although, again, .2 is more advanced.
I felt PSM intervening few times and it was an alright experience, car wasn't acting funny or anything.