Why are there so many crap 993's around?

[Daniel]

Morning all, after telling the Girlfriend we WILL be getting a 993 over the V6 Clio !

I have been out looking at vehicles, driving vehicles ect...

But being this car is a Germany supercar, why are so many pooh !

Looked at 5 over the weekend, and all drove different, some had no power, some had a crunchy gearbox, the others just did not feel right..

As you all know i work for Renault UK, and drive so many different cars, take the 182 Clio, I must of driven 10-12 of them over the last 6 months, and all feel the same, ok some seem faster than others but must be down to the way they have been driven.

Take the VW Corrado, in the past i have has 3 or 4 of them and again, feel the same to drive..

What is it with the 993, and how they never drive the same ?




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[Daniel]

What should i be looking for, When driving one ?

Out of the 5 driven over the weekend 4 were viro-ram and one was not.... and all between 57-78,000 miles and none older the 1995.




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[Maxy M]

Well all 993s are getting on a bit and the oldest are 10+. And they've been looked after (or not) in various ways by various owners (and some cars have had quite a few.

It's difficult to summarise how a good car should be, but the performance should be strong all across the rev band, the gear change smooth and tight, no clutch judder or extreme stiffness, it should feel well planted on the road with no wandering, steering accurate and full of feel, no creaks and rattles, and a smart interior.

They'll vary in quality in dealers. Have you considered buyng privately? Find someone who's loved their car and pampered it - but still get it PPI'd by an expert.

Here's a useful checklist (originally courtesy of Pickled Piper, I think):

#1 As many do low mileage, annual services should be done and Documented. Check all paperwork thoroughly, map out the history. Get an independent inspection.




#2 Low miles commands a premium, but can sometimes cause trouble, see 1 + aircon etc




#3 You're not 100% safe with an OPC, but fully warranted and certified is a pretty good start, adds 2k-5k to the price. Not much trouble would get repair bills of that order! Hard to find one now, but try the better independents …




#4 Carrera 2, 4, S, 4S and TTurbo, RS, TTS cost more in ascending order, but they are all great cars.




#5 Drive both 2 & 4 to decide that one. 4wd will understeer rather more




#6 VRam gives a wider torque spread, a little more bhp. Downside of later N/A cars is the gearbox change to the US ratios (G50/20), but only noticeable on the track.




#7 Get the best car you can afford, with the options you want. Adding them later costs big time.




#8 Cars up to early 96 should have had their engine wiring loom checked – if on the OPC VIN list it should be replaced.




#9 These cars also need the steering rack brace fitted if they are to run 18” wheels.




#10 Factory shocks (esp Monroe) last 20-40K miles only.




#11 M030 (sports suspension) gives excellent ride/handling – M033 (lowered suspension – M030/TT height) fitted as standard to S models – shocks no better. RS gets Bilsteins, ‘nuf said, along with stiffer suspension bushes, springs, roll bars, engine mounts etc etc.




#12 Big Red brakes (4S, TT, RS) are great, but the standard Brembos are outstanding anyway, especially with extra cooling.




#13 Oil used should reflect the value of the car – full synthetic mandatory especially if standard service intervals are followed.




#14 Alignment critical to handling – 993 multilink rear suspension requires extra setting of kinematic toe – special tools required – OPC or specialist only.




#15 LHD gets better driving position along with usual ‘difficulties’.




Other tips from my purchase time:

-
options sticker should be inside front lid - if not, could be repaint job.

-
Check numbers match

-
Run your finger down the rain gutter, it should tighten towards rear - if not could be major body stuff


The seam beads in front of either side of the windscreen should not be brittle - indicates oven treatment (major paint) without full strip down.


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[James Jameson]

A couple of reasons why they may not all drive the same:

1. Tracking. Each wheel is adjustable. If any are out, handling may be "strange". Most cars have "toe" adjustment only, but not these cars.

2. Suspension. Age of shocks and type of suspension fitted. By now, many will have replacement shocks and / or springs and non-standard ride height and tracking. Some people (in terms of tracking and ride height) go for, say, 90% road, 10% track, or 70% road and 30% track. The differences will be noticeable.

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[Porsche]

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel Sait on 07 February 2005

Take the VW Corrado, in the past i have has 3 or 4 of them and again, feel the same to drive..

What is it with the 993, and how they never drive the same ?

when you finaly get your 993.. then you will truly understand the answer to this question...



regards


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[Daniel]

Thank you for your replies,

So can i have some views on what i should but in terms of model, I understand everyone will have there own idea, but.........

Being the car will do about 2-3000 miles per year, and sit on my drive getting wet and cold the rest of the year, This is one of the reasons i don't want a targa or cab, yes when driving i will wish i had bought one, but sitting around all year getting moss growing in places... you know the kind of thing.

I must have A/C in the car, as i think this will help the re-sale and also be nice to have in the summer..

Would like a C2S or C4S, but with a max of 28k don't think i will be getting one of them.

and RHD olny, road use only..




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[Robertb]

Yes, don't dismiss private sales. Do the proper inspections etc and you can even get an OPC warranty subject to T&Cs. I'd never bought a car privately before, but bought my 993 Targa privately after an inspection and haven't looked back.

You get a feel then for the way that the car has been treated by the last owner, and of course pay less than from a dealer...

Robert.


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[Martyn1]

I agree with Robert. I looked at all the usual candiadates in the trade and was almost put off of the whole idea of buying an affordable 993. Not sure if its acceptable to name names but one or two of the dealers are in my opinion rude, arrogant, and taking the P*ss, one in the Slough area particularly so!!

I therefore decided to look at private sales and whilst obviously the price was lower I honestly believe all of the private cars I saw were in better nick than those left to sit on a car lot/field day in day out.

Having identified the car I wanted, I got it PPI'd and HPI'd (??????), renegotiated the price based on PPI findings, and hey presto!

BTW why not LHD? It didnt cross my mind I would consider one but having looked around at prices I decided it was the way I could afford a good 993 over a 964. As for daily driving I have no problem with the LHD (many threads on LHD V RHD use the search facility)

Good hunting.

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[Carrera]

For road driving C2 and C4 are much the same, but if you're not tracking the car then C4 probably safer. In RHD the S are probably going to cost more than the £28k budget, but it should get you a pretty decent RHD late C2/C4.

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[poon]

go Private and get a good PPI, thats what I did. Car stealers pick up 993's that people are trading in or want to get rid of, If you owned a good 993 would you chop it in to a dealer for well below its value and let them make a profit or would you sell it yourself?


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[Fuchs]

Maxy M - whats with this raingutter thing ? - i fingered (oh-er) mine last night and couldn't really see what you were talking about.

Can you enlighten?


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[Maxy M]

Warren, as soon as I read that bit I went out and ran a digit sensuously over mine.

I've just been out to re-check. The gutter gets a little bit narrower over the side window. Not by much though - about 1 mm by my estimation. Also one side is a little more pronounced in the transition than the other.

I conclude that a) P build quality of bodies at that time wasn't mega-consistent and b) that this isn't too scientific a test. Best look hard at other signs of big body damage as well.

Maybe PP can enligten us some more...?


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[Fuchs]

ok thanks Maxy - my test last night only resulted in a salty finger !
(dont ask !)

Car needs a clean - thats all


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[Andy C]

I’m surprised that some of the cars you tested had no power.
I suppose it depends what you’re used to driving but compared to the Clio V6, a 993 should be quicker (on paper at least).




When I bought my 993 I saw a few dogs at Porsche specialists, a few had very bad body work with stone chips and scuffed alloys but all at top prices.
I didn’t take any of these out for a test so will never know if the problems were only skin deep.
I just felt that a £30k car should look like it’s been looked after.
After all they have high residuals because they are good not because they are crap.




Might be worth testing a few very good 993s from one of the better specialist dealers to get an idea what a good car feels like.
But the danger is that you’ll fall for the car and pay over the odds for it.




The PPI and HPI are the best advice but you don’t want to spend money just to confirm your suspicions that a car is a dog, rather to confirm that a car is a good one.




Something I hadn’t considered:
I read about someone in 911 Porsche world magazine who lived in
London
and saw a car for sale in
Scotland
(or something like that).
So he contacted the seller, realised it was just what he wanted and got it PPI’d before travelling to see it.
Could save a lot of time and money.


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[Robertb]

I did that (not quite so extreme) with a car in Canterbury- over 2 hrs away. I asked loads of q's over the phone to confirm the car was a good as I hoped (and that I thought the vendor was a sound fellow), then arranged the PPI. Turned out that the car was as good as expected, and felt it was money well spent to avoid the prospect of a wasted day travelling round the M25...

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