Porsche 911 UK Enthusiasts Online Community Discussion Forum GB

Welcome to the @Porsche911UK website. Register a free account today to become a member! Sign up is quick and easy, then you can view, participate in topics and posts across the site that covers all things Porsche.

Already registered and looking to recovery your account, select 'login in' and then the 'forget your password' option.

Scored Nicasil liner....thoughts?

Anthonyw

Trainee
Joined
22 Sep 2011
Messages
69
Saw an engine with severe scoring today at an independant garage that has had a Nicasil liner and others that had strengthening rings fitted previously at Hartech.

I don't know the full story other than what I have seen so this isn't intended to be a negative post, more to kick start discussion as I have never seen this before and assumed it wasn't possible.

I know Baz posts on here occasionally so it would be good to see his thoughts as well.

Just wanted to share to further the knowledge on this seemingly more common issue.

7731D861-CD74-45F8-ABF7-949AD09D02D7-2810-000000F7F31303FB_zps898848b3.jpg


6FF4142F-3B29-4588-97FD-29F1981BC60D-2810-000000F7FD25BCB8_zps4b6a8a9f.jpg
 
Oh dear.

I would imagine Baz will defend this by saying that it still can happen but at least if you use their products then you only pay for the parts in a future rebuild.

Every engine can have failures, no matter who makes / rebuilds it. The question is how many failures does each manufacturer / garage have per engines done.
 
If debris has entered the cylinder(s) or oil starvation/contamination has happened it matters not a jot who re-built it as it will always happen.
 
I suppose you would only pay parts only if you are on the warranty scheme. Which I assume this owner isn't which is why it isn't back with Hartech.

Agreed that any debris would cause an issue. I was just surprised by this one as the scores in one of the cylinders is all located on the thrust side, which is exactly as it appears in the standard engines. This suggests oval liners according to common belief which shouldn't happen with the strengthening rings?

I will try to find out more if I can without treading on anyone's toes.
 
None of us lot know what happened to this engine, it in the hands of whoever has it in bits! A bit unfair to post it really until the cause is determined.

As above lots of factors could cause it.


I'm surprised the owner hasn't taken it back to where the work was done originally rather than another place.....

If it were mine, even if its out of a rebuild warranty period, I would be taking it back, as I'm sure they would be interested to see it and learn from it so might be lenient on the costs!

EDIT: maybe they did, lots of indys use hartech for engine work I believe. Maybe the OP can keep up up to date?
 
Was the Nikasil liner scored?

I was recently informed by Hartech that if a engine had a rebuild with 6 Nikasil liners. Scoring would not occur?
 
The nicasil liner is the one in the first picture. You can see the ribs on the side if you look carefully that are different to the other standard cylinders.

I will try to find out more but as far as i am aware the car was showing what we would class as normal symptoms of bore scoring. That is not to say that it hasn't been run low on coolant etc. to cause this as i don't know.
 
I'm likewise uncomfortable with a discussion being instigated on very little information. I'm pretty sure that where moving/contact parts are concerned there's no guarantee that there will never be some form of scoring.

Lets wait to hear more about how it happened - booting the car tepeatedly from cold, heavy track use, development mule for other engine work - who knows.

G
 
I have just posted what I have seen as I thought it was interesting. this isn't finger pointing and is no different to what others have done in the past, hartech included, who have posted images of failed engines without full details.

How many of us who have suffered from this issue really know the cause anyway? When the diagnosis is made (i.e.scored bores) the solution seems to be to insert liners at a garage of your choice, try to reduce the temps by using a LTT and go on your way. Most cases you hear about online don't show any other signs of any issues and so detailed investigation doesn't seem to happen to each individual car as the causes are widely understood, thanks in large part to hartech and their efforts to bottom this out and also share the information.

As already identified by others - what we need to be careful of is assuming that all reported cases of scoring have the same cause - which they clearly don't although that seems to be the assumption in the majority of posts online.

This could be a result of other failures, although none were apparent when i saw this - I dont know, or they could be a result of the same issues as all other engines. We will probably never know.

For starters its a shame this hasn't gone back to hartech as they are potentially missing a good development opportunity.

Happy for this thread to be locked or removed if its an issue as I certainly have no axe to grind.
 
Why it didn't go back to Hartech? It may be something owner induced, they were obviously on a budget doing just the one bore in the first place.

I do think this needs to be discussed and out in the open but we also need to know why it happened as everything else is just guess work.
 
I looked at one car that had a water pump failure whilst on the motorway.
Things like this are surely contributing factors?
 
Anthonyw said:
I have just posted what I have seen as I thought it was interesting. this isn't finger pointing and is no different to what others have done in the past, hartech included, who have posted images of failed engines without full details.

How many of us who have suffered from this issue really know the cause anyway? When the diagnosis is made (i.e.scored bores) the solution seems to be to insert liners at a garage of your choice, try to reduce the temps by using a LTT and go on your way. Most cases you hear about online don't show any other signs of any issues and so detailed investigation doesn't seem to happen to each individual car as the causes are widely understood, thanks in large part to hartech and their efforts to bottom this out and also share the information.

As already identified by others - what we need to be careful of is assuming that all reported cases of scoring have the same cause - which they clearly don't although that seems to be the assumption in the majority of posts online.

This could be a result of other failures, although none were apparent when i saw this - I dont know, or they could be a result of the same issues as all other engines. We will probably never know.

For starters its a shame this hasn't gone back to hartech as they are potentially missing a good development opportunity.

Happy for this thread to be locked or removed if its an issue as I certainly have no axe to grind.

This thread should definitely not be locked or removed.

This is a major point of concern for any 997.1 owner or potential buyer.

I think your original post was very fair, and didnt make any accusations.
 
Ok, so I have chased up some more info following earlier posts.

Basically the current owner didn't have the work done by Hartech, it was a previous owner who did. The current owner took the car in for a check over as it was smoking, black exhaust tips and high oil consumption. Boroscope confirmed scoring so now it's being stripped and fixed.

That's as much as I know but at least it clarifies the situation a small amount.

Edit: it's a 997 3.6 engine.
 

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
124,243
Messages
1,443,423
Members
49,357
Latest member
Tone_Loc
Back
Top