Rating 911 Turbos (all generations)

[IMI A]

964 3.6 turbo Ooof!

 

[Shuey]

bad boy, bad boys, whatcha gonna do...

is there a more iconic scene in film with a 911 in?

 

[Harryblue]

More iconic?
Depends on age I suppose.



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Porsche_911_turbo_targa_Rainbow-Porsche_(24505943995).jpg

 

[TurboSandGT4]

i watched the Intercooler podcast for the 911 Turbo

Very interesting
They rated the 964 as the most scary, the 993 as the most revolutionary

 

[Harryblue]

i watched the Intercooler podcast for the 911 Turbo

Very interesting
They rated the 964 as the most scary, the 993 as the most revolutionary

I'm halfway through it and I wasn't surprised about that, he also said that ultimately the 993 wasn't as exciting to drive because it was more refined, and he throws in a comment that you could miss if you weren't paying attention about the 930 with the G50 gearbox being a thing of wonder.
Summing up that part of the podcast I took it to mean that the 930 G50 was the sweet spot, still exciting but not too much like the 964 or dulled a bit like the 993.

I'm biased though as an owner of a 1989 930.
As an owner though I'm also a bit fed up with people telling me they're super rare and worth a fortune, if anyone wants to give me a fortune for mine then feel free.

 

[TurboSandGT4]

I'm halfway through it and I wasn't surprised about that, he also said that ultimately the 993 wasn't as exciting to drive because it was more refined, and he throws in a comment that you could miss if you weren't paying attention about the 930 with the G50 gearbox being a thing of wonder.
Summing up that part of the podcast I took it to mean that the 930 G50 was the sweet spot, still exciting but not too much like the 964 or dulled a bit like the 993.

I'm biased though as an owner of a 1989 930.
As an owner though I'm also a bit fed up with people telling me they're super rare and worth a fortune, if anyone wants to give me a fortune for mine then feel free.

is the 930 actually tricky to drive with modern tyres?
I have found that even by 992 can let go at the back when powering out of corners in the wet and also lots of weight transfer under braking -enough for me to be careful

 

[Harryblue]

is the 930 actually tricky to drive with modern tyres?

It's better on modern rubber, but if you try and drive it like a GT car then it will kill you unless you have the skills and reactions of an F1 driver.
Drive it like a grand tourer and give it some respect and you'll be fine. It's fairly easily manageable at 8/10ths for anyone with any experience, but the last 2/10ths needs someone very talented if you try and wring it's neck.

I think it's reputation is deserved but it was also helped a lot by being driven by rich people who had never experienced a turbo engine and halfway round bends when the boost kicked it they simply didn't know what was happening.

My boy (he's twenty now) rode one of my old race two stroke motorcycles a few years ago, he's grown up riding motorcycles and even two strokes, but they have power valves now that smooth out the power. On this old bike he was halfway around a long sweeping bend when it came on the pipe and went berserk and he nearly stuffed it into the armco, I did try and explain to him before what it was like but you really need to experience it yourself.

 

[Gazc2]

My experience as a mere mortal driving a 930 was you would have to be driving like a total loon to get in to trouble and always felt the cars limits were way past mine. The 4 speed 86 that I had you could use second gear between 30-90 the other gears were pointless so is it any different to take Harry's point squeezing the last 2 tenths from any performance car is not for the majority on here

 

[Thunderace]

Should be/is in my experience, fine driven "enthusiastically" on the road. Above was mentioned "the last 2 tenths" and if you use that on the road in any sports car you will probably come to grief. having said that it is more apparent in the 930 because if you commit to a corner at 9/10 tenths in a road situation and have to lift off/brake (which happens a lot on the road) you will lose contact patch at the back as the rear raises and will be in a whole load of trouble.

 

[Harryblue]

I should correct what I said by saying that I meant driving it at 8/10ths of your ability, not the cars.

I can drive a 991.2 C2S at 10/10ths of my ability and the car is so good that it will cover up my mistakes and save me with its clever electronic driver aids. But if I tried that in the 930 it would kill me.

Few of us will ever be able to take a 930 into the last 2/10ths of it’s performance envelope, I certainly can’t, but as I said I meant our own abilities, not the cars.

Modern cars and motorcycles allow us to push well into the limits of our abilities and then they save us from ourselves. The 930 will not, when you get to the edge of your own limits you will crash it, it won’t (can’t) save you.

 

[Thunderace]

Modern cars and motorcycles allow us to push well into the limits of our abilities and then they save us from ourselves.

Until the electric gizmo that you rely on so much fails and you make friends with a tree, I rode 1000cc sports bikes for many years (and at speed) and you wouldn't catch me on one with ABS let alone traction control, i think it ruines racing too. I watched a video talking about the 500 two stroke days and that modern riders would crash on the first corner.

 

[Harryblue]

I’m not sure how much it impacts genuine top ten F1/GP racers, those guys have a level of ability that is so far outside of the average that I don’t think the electronics are better than they are.

But for an average rider, it’s massive. My old boss decided to do his motorcycle test and buy a new superbike. I followed him once and I can say categorically that the electronics were riding the bike for him, on the exit of every bend he was grabbing a very clumsy fistful of throttle and I could see the electronics saving him. At one stage he asked for a go of my bike and I refused because it was an older bike with no rider aids and he’d have highsided on the first bend.

 

[Thunderace]

I’m not sure how much it impacts genuine top ten F1/GP racers, those guys have a level of ability that is so far outside of the average that I don’t think the electronics are better than they are.

It certainly is or they would take it off. i'll have to find the video but it was a modern F1 rider who had a go at an 80s 500 two stroke and he couldn't ride it, they call the motorcycle riding 80s the wild west because the bikes were so mad.

But for an average rider, it’s massive. My old boss decided to do his motorcycle test and buy a new superbike. I followed him once and I can say categorically that the electronics were riding the bike for him, on the exit of every bend he was grabbing a very clumsy fistful of throttle and I could see the electronics saving him. At one stage he asked for a go of my bike and I refused because it was an older bike with no rider aids and he’d have highsided on the first bend.

I think people should learn to ride bikes, it helps them stay alive, if the nanny tech is saving him then he needs more training, get him on a smaller bike with zero tech on it so he gets a feel for the front wheel under braking etc.

 

[Harryblue]

It certainly is or they would take it off. i'll have to find the video but it was a modern F1 rider who had a go at an 80s 500 two stroke and he couldn't ride it, they call the motorcycle riding 80s the wild west because the bikes were so mad.

I wouldn’t read too much into that if it was a one-off ride, Rossi managed both.

My lad is very naturally gifted on a bike and raced growing up but he couldn’t ride my ‘80s two stroke race bike at first, it’s a skill that needs to be learned.

I agree about people learning to ride properly. We started out on 50s, then 125s, them 250s, etc. Zero electronics and mucho throttle control.

I had a ten year stint on only modern bikes and when I got back on my old 350LC I thought it was broken until I remembered how a two stroke works, modern four strokes had made me very lazy on the throttle. Give it wide open throttle in any modern vehicle at 2,500 revs in any gear and it will accelerate, slower if you’re in a high gear but it will accelerate, whereas on my old bikes it will bog down and slow down

As an ex-racer I feel like proper throttle control is probably the thing that wins more races over anything else.

 

[Thunderace]

I wouldn’t read too much into that if it was a one-off ride, Rossi managed both.

I agree but then again Rossi was a racing god

My lad is very naturally gifted on a bike and raced growing up but he couldn’t ride my ‘80s two stroke race bike at first, it’s a skill that needs to be learned.

I agree about people learning to ride properly. We started out on 50s, then 125s, them 250s, etc. Zero electronics and mucho throttle control.

I had a ten year stint on only modern bikes and when I got back on my old 350LC I thought it was broken until I remembered how a two stroke works, modern four strokes had made me very lazy on the throttle. Give it wide open throttle in any modern vehicle at 2,500 revs in any gear and it will accelerate, slower if you’re in a high gear but it will accelerate, whereas on my old bikes it will bog down and slow down

As an ex-racer I feel like proper throttle control is probably the thing that wins more races over anything else.

I agree with pretty much all of that, throttle control when "over" is a key skill especially in the wet but I would add equally front brake control. bikes by their very nature are very easy to "wash out", again, especially in the wet.