Prices down

[T8]

Me selling two of them and people I know doing the same.
Plus the dozens sitting there not selling for months at a time.

If you've got one then phone some dealers and ask what they'll give you for it, but brace yourself first.

Surely this is just symptomatic of the current climate. I can't see how the 991.1 can be singled out.

 

[Harryblue]

Surely this is just symptomatic of the current climate. I can't see how the 991.1 can be singled out.

I obviously don't have the definitive answer, just an opinion, I think what you suggest definitely a part of it but I think also it’s oversupply and (this will be an unpopular opinion with some of you) it's not as desirable as some other models.

I think the main reason the 991.1 is less desirable is for the same reasons that the 997.1 is less desirable than the 997.2.
The main reason for me was it felt wooden and not great to drive, compared to the earlier cars, for me it was a step too far into civilised transport for the masses.

 

[T8]

..... I think the main reason the 991.1 is less desirable is for the same reasons that the 997.1 is less desirable than the 997.2.

The main reason that the 997.1 is less desirable than the 997.2 is because of perceived issues of reliability and engine longevity.

There haven't been any such concerns levelled at the 991.1, not least because it fundamentally shares the same engine as the 997.2.

I've also never heard of 'over-supply' being associated with the 991.

 

[Harryblue]

The main reason that the 997.1 is less desirable than the 997.2 is because of perceived issues of reliability and engine longevity.

There haven't been any such concerns levelled at the 991.1, not least because it fundamentally shares the same engine as the 997.2.

I've also never heard of 'over-supply' being associated with the 991.

This is where I normally wander off at a meeting and find someone else to talk to who isn't in full denial of 991.1 engine problems
Oversupply just means there are lots on the market and people aren't buying them.

I have a 997.1 C2S Tip - I've had no issues with mine, but if people suggest that it could be prone to bore score then I'll nod and agree, it might.
It'll happen (or not) regardless of any discussion we have here. I don't mind discussing it, it doesn't get me in a tizzy about it.

However, I didn't sell my 991s because of mechanical worries, I just thought they weren't exciting to drive compared to the experience of a 930, a 964, a 993, a 996, etc. And to add to that, I couldn't get a good feel from the steering, and even on top of that they felt really large to drive.
Ultimately they became so far away from why I liked 911s that I sold them and bought the 911s that I do like, so now I've got the 930, the 996 RS and the 997 C2S.

 

[T8]

This is where I normally wander off at a meeting and find someone else to talk to who isn't in full denial of 991.1 engine problems
Oversupply just means there are lots on the market and people aren't buying them.

I have no skin in the game regarding the 991.1 but as a moderator on here I feel obliged to get involved when opinions seem to be presented as facts. Aside from the notorious and well documented issues associated with the early GT3s there has been nothing posted on here over the last 12 years to suggest that there are any known problems associated with the 991.1.

My query about your mention of 'over supply' was generated as this is a term more generally used in the new car market. (eg) Porsche were perceived as being guilty of over-supplying high-end 992s (GTS and Turbo models) in the year after Covid. Prior to that - as most 911s were built to order - no mention was ever made about Porsche over-supplying them. I'd argue that 'supply exceeding demand' in the current used-car market is simply down to the current economic climate.

 

[TurboSandGT4]

no reported failure of the G6 Engine for the 991.1 GT3
Probably much more reliable than any 997 with bore score and can extend the warranty for another 5 years

Any issue with a 997 GT3 and its £££££££

 

[Roro]

I can't help but thinking several different unrelated issues are all being conflated here which can be confusing to anyone new to/unfamiliar with Porsche

997.1 Carrera models - Bore score engine issues
997.1 GT3 - No significant engine issues that I am aware of. Other than a dodgy batch of conrods in early 2006 MY that must have now been sorted. Otherwise rebuilds tend to happen in the pursuit of more power or torque rather than due to remedying any design faults
997.2 - All models - no inherent engine design flaws or issues

991.1 Carrera models - no inherent engine design flaws or issues
991.1 GT3 - Terminal engine issues early MY, corrected with replacement G series engines
991.2 - All models - no issues that I am aware of

Happy to be corrected on any of the above

 

[CaptainSensible]

I obviously don't have the definitive answer, just an opinion, I think what you suggest definitely a part of it but I think also it’s oversupply and (this will be an unpopular opinion with some of you) it's not as desirable as some other models.

Just to disagree with some actual facts around this.

There are currently 64 996 C4S for sale on Autotrader
There are currently 102 997 C4S for sale on Autotrader
There are currently 57 991 C4S for sale on Autotrader

If you're not a fan of the 991 then completely fair enough. But I can't see the justification for saying there is oversupply compared to earlier models.

 

[Rhodris-dad]

This is where I normally wander off at a meeting and find someone else to talk to who isn't in full denial of 991.1 engine problems
Oversupply just means there are lots on the market and people aren't buying them.

I have a 997.1 C2S Tip - I've had no issues with mine, but if people suggest that it could be prone to bore score then I'll nod and agree, it might.
It'll happen (or not) regardless of any discussion we have here. I don't mind discussing it, it doesn't get me in a tizzy about it.

However, I didn't sell my 991s because of mechanical worries, I just thought they weren't exciting to drive compared to the experience of a 930, a 964, a 993, a 996, etc. And to add to that, I couldn't get a good feel from the steering, and even on top of that they felt really large to drive.
Ultimately they became so far away from why I liked 911s that I sold them and bought the 911s that I do like, so now I've got the 930, the 996 RS and the 997 C2S.

991.1 engine problems? Is that a typo?
991.2 I've heard of Turbo failures, but as T8 says, the DFI engine in the 997.2 and 991.1 I have always perceived were pretty reliable. I did have a throttle body issue with my 997 4S which was sorted in warranty. The 991 4GTS was the best sounding 911 IMHO (excluding GT cars) (about 50k miles covered in those 2 cars)
I was one of the unfortunate 996 owners who suffered the £10k engine rebuild (part funded by warranty)

Sold my GTS in Feb and had a "Motorway" valuation which in the following 3 months or so went up £8k!!!
They still keep sending me valuations and it has dropped to Feb valuations now. I think generally, car prices are taking a big hit at the moment, even classics seem to be suffering if the auction vids on YouTube are anything to go by.
Harry Metcalfe has an interesting vid on car prices that I watched this morning. (sorry, haven't got a link).

New car prices have gone insane. Only a couple of years back a base Carrera could be had for under £90k. Last week I was in Chester OPC and a base Carrera (with a sunroof and retro Fuchs wheels) was £129k!!!!

 

[Harryblue]

I have no skin in the game regarding the 991.1 but as a moderator on here I feel obliged to get involved when opinions seem to be presented as facts.

I've been careful to state my opinion, because genuine facts are hard to come by, I used to work in manufacturing for a company you will have heard of and they do not share failure data willingly.

I also temper my opinions knowing that there are some emotionally fragile people that are unable to have a discussion without getting upset about it, so I'd rather not even get into it. I've read that G engines were failing in the US but I can't back it up, so I don't even try.

And I keep saying this, this forum won't change reality, let's just chew the fat, throw out what we heard and all stay friends.

 

[pzero]

I heard from someone, I forget where, but it was a bloke that knew someone who read a post on Pistonheads, or was it Facebook? Again, I forget, anyway, he said that just, like advent calendars, the days are numbered for new yet to be launched 994. It's what I heard out there.

 

[Harryblue]

Just to disagree with some actual facts around this.

There are currently 64 996 C4S for sale on Autotrader
There are currently 102 997 C4S for sale on Autotrader
There are currently 57 991 C4S for sale on Autotrader

If you're not a fan of the 991 then completely fair enough. But I can't see the justification for saying there is oversupply compared to earlier models.

Earlier I was only looking at the GT cars, not the base models like C2/4.
But yes you're right, more base model 996/997s than the 991s.

However, in models 996 and 997 there are loads more base cars than GT3 cars, but with the 991 they are somewhere near par, if you include the RS models there are probably around 50 991 GT3 and GT3RS? And as you say 57 base models.
Whereas with the 996 there is a lot less GT cars to the base models for sale.

Porsche made a lot more GT models in the 991 range and that's what I mean by oversupply, last time I looked there were over a hundred GT3 991 and 992s out there for sale.
It certainly looks like more cars than buyers.

 

[BenB91]

Be interesting to see how much this goes for -I bet it doesn't make £60k.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2015-porsche-911-991-2-carrera-s-1

 

[NDA]

Be interesting to see how much this goes for -I bet it doesn't make £60k.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2015-porsche-911-991-2-carrera-s-1

I wonder why the owner didn't bother to prep it for sale? The wheels and under the rear deck don't look good - I know it's only cosmetic, but you'd think an effort might be made. I like that colour.

 

[BenB91]

I wonder why the owner didn't bother to prep it for sale? The wheels and under the rear deck don't look good - I know it's only cosmetic, but you'd think an effort might be made. I like that colour.

Wheels just need a refurb, not a big deal to me.