Prices down

[CaptainSensible]

For those comparing the 991 with 997 or earlier models, the point you are missing is that many people in the market for one won't have ever driven a 911 before, so won't care if a 991 does or doesn't feel like and old school 911.

All they car about is if the car ticks the boxes for what they want, i.e. good looking, reasonably reliable, modern enough tech, can be run daily, but also good fun when you want to go for a blast.

That's why I bought a 991. I love 911s of all generations, but have never driven any others. I'm very happy that my car does exactly what I want it to, even if it's not the purists choice.

 

[Thunderace]

Comparing a 993 to a 964 or an earlier 911 is perfectly valid but it's bizarre to even think of comparing a 991 to any of them.

The 993 was the culmination of 911 evolution that took place between 1963 and 1993. IMO, the only relevant comparisons to the 991 are the 996, 997.

OK, they're all called 911s and they all have flat-6 engines at the back, but if a car launched in 2012 drove anything like a car launched in 1963 I don't think they'd sell many.

I do get what you are saying because the 996 for the first time did not use the original 1963 body, having said that I think "original body" is the only thing separating the 996/997, these cars were newer lighter, faster, had better gearboxes and handled better than all the previous 911s yet were the same size and had no nanny tech (well some later) they also had far better "expected equipment" like air con, heating and necessary water cooling. So I think the 996/997 fits far better as a genuine evolution from the "original body" cars, from 991 on I don't see this being the case with increasing nanny tech/driver separation, and GT size.

As a previous 911 SC/930 owner the only thing I really miss vs 996 is the more prominent and iconic front wing view from the cabin (and rear arch in the wing mirrors of the turbo), together with the turbine like woosh of the cooling fan. I have no desire for a newer 911, in fact i'd probably prefer a Jag F Type R, but i'll stick to the 996 as prefered version of 911 perfection.

 

[Marty*]

We all seem to have our favourites as to what was the perfect 911. I loved my 964 for me it embodied everything a 911 should be in my head.But saying that my 996.1 drove so much better and now I find my 996 turbo to have turned up the volume just that bit more. All of these cars seemed to be the cars that everyone disliked and it showed in their values. But as it would seem with all 911’s they depreciate,bottom out and then pick up with some models more than others. Currently I feel the 996/997 is the perfect balance of old and new in the way they look and how they drive but as time passes that will be the models of today I’m guessing

 

[Harryblue]

I agree with that.

But my point was, in 25 years time, when there is nothing like them being built, they will feel as raw to the then current cars as the 993 does today to a 991 owner.

I would also think that most would find a 993, or a 964, nothing more than a novelty, fun to drive for an hour or so, but wonder how people used them every day, back in the day.

Yeah I’m sure you’re right, the older cars are quirky in a way that not everyone loves. It’s the quirks that I like but I can see why others wouldn’t like them.
I never take it personally if someone doesn’t like my older cars/bikes and their value isn’t important to me emotionally, but I do like to discuss it, although I often feel like I’m treading on egg shells.

 

[Harryblue]

Harry…

So a 991.1 is a disappointment as a Porsche beautifully curved as it most certainly is.... Hmm..? For sure autojournos income depends upon praising the latest and greatest of the time, and it seems most of them may seem to drive the wide variety of sports cars and GT`s they have access to, with reasonable skill..? One such journo who to my mind might be worth paying attention to more than some others appears in the vid link below, and it seems he may have genuinely rather enjoyed his time testing that particular 991... Whadaya fink...?

What do I think?
Well it seems like I should have bought a C4S version of the 991 and not a C2S or GT3.

Catchpole reckons they managed to sort the vague steering out in the C4S and somehow imbibe in it the feeling that I thought was absent, with the result that I never quite knew what it was doing. He says that Evo were critical of the 991 steering, something that I was unaware of as I’m not a big Evo reader, but it’s nice to know I wasn’t imagining it.

The C4S looks like the pick of the bunch, I wish I’d bought one and if I was betting on future prices I’d go for that as the one that might hold onto its value.

 

[TurboSandGT4]

992.1 GT3 on OPC website now down to 139K this morning.
However only 2 991.1 GT3 at 90K plus (same as last year)
As for Turbo models 991.1 TTS at similar price to 2019 -I find that amazing

 

[gizlaroc]

What do I think?
Well it seems like I should have bought a C4S version of the 991 and not a C2S or GT3.

Catchpole reckons they managed to sort the vague steering out in the C4S and somehow imbibe in it the feeling that I thought was absent, with the result that I never quite knew what it was doing. He says that Evo were critical of the 991 steering, something that I was unaware of as I’m not a big Evo reader, but it’s nice to know I wasn’t imagining it.

The C4S looks like the pick of the bunch, I wish I’d bought one and if I was betting on future prices I’d go for that as the one that might hold onto its value.

I think a lot of the early C2 was the fact it was new epas and software, I think they added extra resistance off centre to make it feel weightier, but this robbed you of road feel and it was still not heavy anyway.
Some of the guys have flashed their 991.1 with the GT3 epas software and say it is so much better, just far more responsive off centre and you can start to feel the road underneath far more.

I do also think that geo on all these cars makes such a huge difference, the difference between being within spec but at each end of their spec is huge, it completely changes the car. Get in a 991 where someone has dialled the geo in and it is very impressive.

Same with all the models, I just think that the 991 with its new epas needed a little more refinement when it launched.





I was also talking about in 25 years time, in another 25 years when these cars are 55, even 60 years old, the 993 and even more so the 964, will for most feel like a novelty. I'm sure some do today too, but a well sorted one is still great to drive.

I don't think you need to tread on eggshells, I like the discussion.

 

[Harryblue]

Both mine were 991.2.

In terms of excitement, it's fairly obvious really, make a car much more capable and you have to push it harder to get that 'on the edge' feeling.
Although, as I said the guys at Icon said that the geniuses at Porsche have somehow dialled in excitement with the new 992, particularly the full fat Turbo which is capable of 200mph but still feels brilliant at 60mph.

Price comparisons still remain interesting to me, on Autotrader there are twenty-four 991 GT3s at less than £100K, but there is only a single 997.2 GT3 less than £100k (five pounds less actually) the rest are over £100k.
997.2's GT3s have overtaken the 991.1, it's a trend I expect to continue with the gap widening as time goes on.

 

[NDA]

For those comparing the 991 with 997 or earlier models, the point you are missing is that many people in the market for one won't have ever driven a 911 before, so won't care if a 991 does or doesn't feel like and old school 911.

That's why I bought a 991. I love 911s of all generations, but have never driven any others. I'm very happy that my car does exactly what I want it to, even if it's not the purists choice.

That describes me and my purchase precisely.

 

[Harryblue]

That describes me and my purchase precisely.

Do you think you'll be a longtime 911 fan though, or is this a one-off and the next car will be a non-Porsche?

 

[NDA]

Do you think you'll be a longtime 911 fan though, or is this a one-off and the next car will be a non-Porsche?

Good question!

I've had a few interesting cars (Murcielago, Ford GT, Vanquish, Continental GT, Morgan +8 and others) all of which had their pro's and con's. My happy place is spending 2 or 3 weeks driving across France and, so far, my poorly chosen sports cars have all been used for this purpose. Some were hilariously bad for this task, some were good. The Porsche, so far, seems ideal. I like the functional luxury (nothing superfluous and yet a very nice place to be), it's very driver focussed - easy and obvious switchgear... it all just works with no quirks. I also like that fact that it's within the 911 family and a classic of sorts.

I'm a fan. But I can't see me switching to a GT3 or going up the model range - I'm happy where I am. I don't need to do 200mph, but I like a decent turn of speed and I feel confident that the car's handling is probably better than my driving could ever exploit. I am happy to stay with it for a few years - plus, I am changing car less often these days as so little appeals to me.... lane keeping assist, speed assist etc etc. Getting into a new car these days is like trying to fire up Concord with a pre-flight routine necessary to turn all the crap off.

 

[stuckmojo]

Doesnt' the 991.1 GT3 have a chocolate engine, with inherent flaws which even the G engine swap won't fix?

That must put a lot of people off. How much is one of those engines? £30k?

As for ideal GT3, it'd be between 997.2 manual and 992.2 Touring, Manual.

 

[Harryblue]

Lol you've done it now, 991 failures, this will be like the Star Wars scene.....these aren't the droids you're looking for....nothing to see here....move on....
I do know that the 991 is hard to sell, especially the GT models and especially the 991.1.

As for the perfect GT car, I'm in the position Mr Porsche was all those years ago, I couldn't find the perfect sports car, so I'm building one, it'll be effectively a 996 RS with a more road orientated engine.

 

[T8]

...... "I do know that the 991 is hard to sell, especially the GT models and especially the 991.1." ........

Based on what?

 

[Harryblue]

Based on what?

Me selling two of them and people I know doing the same.
Plus the dozens sitting there not selling for months at a time.

If you've got one then phone some dealers and ask what they'll give you for it, but brace yourself first.

Like I've always said about forum chatter, I could say anything and it wouldn't change reality, so if I say they aren't selling well but really they are, then ignore me, but I don't think I'm wrong.