My 930 thread

[Skoosh1970]

H, let me know when it's confirmed and i'll come over to MLR and perv over your car..... out of interest, which prison did you work in lol

 

[Harryblue]

The prison story will have to stay offline to protect the guilty

 

[Luddite]

So looking forward to reading of your first drive.... exciting times ahead for sure, thanks for sharing your story with us thus far...

 

[Marty*]

I'm counting down the (17) days until the Staffordshire, Cheshire and Lancashire countryside is roaring with the sound of exhaust gases being propelled backwards out of my 930 at the speed of a thousand gazelles, helped along by brand spanking new 964 cams and a big fat stainless header system.

I will be hopping about in the drivers seat as excited as can be, I might get naked and oiled up with Millers Nanodrive and Copperslip to get an extra 5mph - although I promised my wife I'd stop all that once I got out of prison.

I'm hoping it's finished and ready to rock and roll.
If it is then I'll be turning the key early Saturday morning on the 14th and starting my run from Stoke up to the wilds of Hambleton village.
If you're out and about give me a toot or a wave.

I’ll be looking out for you in Lancashire

 

[Harryblue]

So looking forward to reading of your first drive.... exciting times ahead for sure, thanks for sharing your story with us thus far...

I don’t know if many people are interested but I really enjoy reading other people’s build or restoration threads so I figured it only fair to do my own.

Plus it’s an outlet to talk about stuff, you can’t go around telling people that you’re having a Porsche built or restoring a classic without someone thinking you’re bragging about being rich or something but on an enthusiast forum you can let rip because we’re all into the same stuff. Hopefully these enthusiasts forums are places where someone could talk about the buying experience of getting a 959 and their first drive, without some clown having a go at them for it being expensive.

I haven’t driven my 930 much at all and in retrospect we now know it was half knackered, so it should be a gripping experience to get into it now.

 

[Marky911]

Looks a nice car Harry.

As is always the case, once you open them up it’s a case of “While you’re in there”.
Bottom ends are usually solid. Rebuild is usually classed as a top end rebuild even though it includes piston rings as these can be done without stripping the bottom end.

Most of the wear as I’m sure you know now is through the extra heat caused by the turbo. So often the lower headstuds snap yet the upper ones rarely do.
Exhaust valves are usually burnt out but inlet aren’t and there’s often some fine heat cracks that require matching out.

On my old 964 Turbo (technically the same motor) we went for SC cams. That was the tried and tested route back then. I’m wondering what the difference is between 964 cams out of interest. We did have to machine one of the SC ones for the oil pump drive though, so maybe it saves doing that.

Fuelling is the limitation on those cars. It’s very rudimentary. You have to be so careful. We did the SC cams and a 1 bar boost spring from the 3.6 964T and we were at the limit. That was 381bhp up from 320bhp.

If you want to go further you need to speak to Stu Patterson at SP Autobahn in Scotland. He developed his own modified WUR which he could setup to perfection, achieving an almost EFi-like fuelling graph.
Not cheap though as there are hours and hours of live set-up involved. He’s the best in the country though.

Anyway, I look forward to reading your thoughts once it’s done. Lovely old cars just don’t mention the brakes.

 

[Luddite]

I suspect it matters not a jot as to how many people are interested, perhaps more related to the type of people that are interested...?


As an automotive enthusiast I can enjoy sharing in the enthusiasm others have for their machines, just as I enjoy sharing my enthusiasm with others, which I imagine will be similar to the way many other enthusiasts think...?
For sure there will be envious enthusiasts too but that would seem to be just one of those aspects of human nature which bothered me more when I was younger... shrug.. these days I tend to treat that as their problem not mine.

At least I imagine things in terms of the general public, relative to air cooled Porsches and and classics cars older than the 90`s in general, the envy factor will have diluted considerably with the passage of time compared to the 70`s-80`s when I owned my air cooled Porsches for decade or more, I suspect that these days there will be far more appreciation..... ?
Back in the 80`s and 90`s things seemed different, My black 77 911 did not attract as much unwanted attention in the 80`s as did my later Guards Red SC in the later 80`s and 90`s... enough to say that in time I give up on driving my Porsche for enjoyment in time, and moved on to something more vintage related in the way of a sports car....(-:

I have been back into Porsche ownership over the last three years, yeah well there will ever be a chance of coming across some degree of envy, but that there are so many water cooled Porsches, and so many other vehicles on the roads in general, I suspect water cooled Porsches unless in other than a bright colour, almost go unnoticed in general..?
For an enthusiast I suspect owning a classic is likely to be an emotional experience overall, which can perhaps be diluted to some degree by the envious, dependant on ones own nature....?

Just enjoying that which you can and while you can seems to be a reasonable course to set...? (-:

 

[Skoosh1970]

Some of the most enjoyable threads i've ever read are on these kind of enthusiasts sites, this one being no different, especially Chiefs thread on his 914, for more than 1 reason. I enjoy threads about cars, of all types and brands but i don't enjoy threads that start off on one subject then go on a different tangent and involve politics , economy etc etc..... but, i suppose this is the world we live in where everybody has a voice, regardless of the content of said voices. It also takes considerable effort to maintain a thread of 50+pages over the course of a few years and long may that continue.

The choice is if you don't want to read it.... don't.

I for one, really enjoy a good build thread, the time, the endeavour , knowledge and skill involved regardless of cost or value.

Keep it up Harry.....i couldn't care how rich you are or aren't... i'm a petrolhead, period, not a rich one but i certainly have a rich love and appreciation for the motor car.

 

[Harryblue]

I remember back in the day the talk in the pub was that the 964 cams apparently run reasonably well off boost but their main selling point was that they deliver higher up the rev range, the general gossip was that SC cams give better torque off boost but run out of steam on boost and the 964 cams keeps everything open a bit longer and therefore holds onto the power higher up.

Recently, upon making enquiries, we were told that apparently (there is that word again) the 964 cams open sooner and close later, so you'd think that they'd also give better low down drive than stock and better overall performance up top, which we were assured they do, so we went with the 964 ones over the SC ones.
They also need better headers to work well though, which we're waiting on.

Going further, the main restrictions (aside from the fuel system) are the valve sizes, which ultimately will limit how much gas you can get into and out of the combustion chamber and I read that increasing valve sizes is where the bigger gains are, but I don't want to chase big bhp, I'd be plenty happy with 350bhp and keeping some of that light switch boost characteristics, like an old two stroke motorcycle, full of character when you 'come onto the pipe'.

It's going back next year for the full bodywork refresh, it's fine as it is but I want it perfect.
Then I'll live with it for a few years and see.

It doesn't need a full OEM full restoration, if its clear we'll be keeping it forever then I may commission a full engine rebuild, it's got 80k miles on the clock and it shouldn't need a rebuild until 100k miles at least, that's going to be 4-5 years away with the amount of miles I do, but if it looks like a genuine keeper then I may have it done and at that point I'd probably go EFI, long neck intercooler, bypass bypass (if that's not a tautology) and a tweak here and there to push it up a bit more.

This car is as cool as a penguins chuff and I'd find it hard to part with it unless they spike in price and it's a no brainer to boost my pension pot by a crazy amount.

 

[Harryblue]

It's looking much more like an engine than it was last week...



And a table full of OEM goodness always feels good to look at when you're building an engine up...

 

[Marky911]

I remember back in the day the talk in the pub was that the 964 cams apparently run reasonably well off boost but their main selling point was that they deliver higher up the rev range, the general gossip was that SC cams give better torque off boost but run out of steam on boost and the 964 cams keeps everything open a bit longer and therefore holds onto the power higher up.

Recently, upon making enquiries, we were told that apparently (there is that word again) the 964 cams open sooner and close later, so you'd think that they'd also give better low down drive than stock and better overall performance up top, which we were assured they do, so we went with the 964 ones over the SC ones.
They also need better headers to work well though, which we're waiting on.

Going further, the main restrictions (aside from the fuel system) are the valve sizes, which ultimately will limit how much gas you can get into and out of the combustion chamber and I read that increasing valve sizes is where the bigger gains are, but I don't want to chase big bhp, I'd be plenty happy with 350bhp and keeping some of that light switch boost characteristics, like an old two stroke motorcycle, full of character when you 'come onto the pipe'.

It's going back next year for the full bodywork refresh, it's fine as it is but I want it perfect.
Then I'll live with it for a few years and see.

It doesn't need a full OEM full restoration, if its clear we'll be keeping it forever then I may commission a full engine rebuild, it's got 80k miles on the clock and it shouldn't need a rebuild until 100k miles at least, that's going to be 4-5 years away with the amount of miles I do, but if it looks like a genuine keeper then I may have it done and at that point I'd probably go EFI, long neck intercooler, bypass bypass (if that's not a tautology) and a tweak here and there to push it up a bit more.

This car is as cool as a penguins chuff and I'd find it hard to part with it unless they spike in price and it's a no brainer to boost my pension pot by a crazy amount.

Interesting about the cams. Looks like it’s in good hands anyway and yep I wouldn’t go any further than you are, if you have one eye on future values. EFi and mods like that will kill the value. The collectors want stock. The top price stuff is always bone stock.
Easily reversible stuff is fine. Depends if you’re building it for you or for the next guy.

 

[Harryblue]

I think if you go the whole hog on a full modification then (in a decent market) it can push the value right up, a really well sorted 930 with a Turbocraft (or similar) engine is going to be big money, although of course all this only works if the right buyers are around and the market is good.

If it’s been messed around with by multiple people with no proper providence or strategy then it can surely damage the value and could quite likely be a grenade waiting to go off.

As recorded in this thread, out of the cars for sale when I was buying I chose the bog standard car that needed almost every hose, pipe, gasket and top end stuff replacing because other than filters it was literally still running with the stuff it left the factory with. It’s worked out expensive but I can demonstrably prove that it hasn’t been tuned or messed about with. It’s worth noting that out of all the ones I looked at over a couple of years this was the only one that hadn’t been ‘tuned’ to some degree, these used to be relatively cheap and people weren’t scared to throw big turbos and other bolt-on kit at them, rag them for a year or two and then sell. Mine was mostly in storage during those years so it escaped any of that, the family that owned it for 31yrs definitely had an eye on future value because they kept it as it left the factory, kept it low miles and only took it out of storage each year for an MOT and basic services.

The only engine mods at the moment are 964 cams and Fabspeed headers. All easily reversed if needed.

I set this thread up as part of its history, so my kids or any future owner can follow it easily.

 

[Skoosh1970]

To me, keeping a car like this for 31 years and only taking it out for a service and mot is absolutely nuts.... !!!!!

If you want something nice to look at to make a few quid then buy a painting or a vase...... cars are for driving and enjoying, no sitting around hopefully appreciating.

Make sure you enjoy this beauty H......sure you will.

 

[Harryblue]

It's got a classic tale, a London Stockbroker bought it new, I have his address at the time, then a bloke bought it at two years old as his dream car, and it seems like it stayed in that family, I think sentimental value probably kept it in place until it became valuable enough to sell it.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it was neglected, but it wasn't a cherished drivers car for a number of years.

I think you can keep a fundamentally sound car going on a small budget for years, they're generally well built and reasonably easy to nurse along with regular servicing and MOTs, but sooner or later it's going to be expensive, especially if you want it done right, it’s all the little things that really add up.

The last owner was quite honest about wanting it as a childhood dream but it turned out to be something he didn't end up liking very much.
He did about 700 miles in a year and sold it without spending anything on it.

 

[Harryblue]

It's getting close, the lads have been keeping me updated with videos, the engine looks very nice and isn't far off going back in, the underside looks minty clean after the dry-ice cleaning and the new KWs look lovely, and even though I really like the standard spoiler, this spoiler is (in my opinion) a pretty cool improvement.