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gt3rs power increase advice please.

Big fud

Monza
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
168
I have a gt3rs 2004 just purchased how his the best way of getting more power-£ please.

I want the feeling of a gt3rs with the power of a x50 turbo is this possible around 450-450 ish.

Regards
mark.
 
Its normally aspirated so any increase in power is very hard to get without big modifications and big £££`s. A simple remap will liberate 15-20bhp but may ruin the drive and reliability.

I think most people buy these cars as there is nothing more to do to them that Porsche has not ! Have you found the limits already with your new toy then ?
 
Limits nooo

Not drove it properly to find the limits so used to turbo'd cars tbh just wanted to see if it was an exhaust, filters, and a mapp tweek.

Many thanks.
 
To get the power you quote on an RS 996 you will need to convert it to a 3.9 min + exhaust and a lot more. It can be done but budget £30k. Search the Forum for Nick (NIX20) engine build thread.

Jon.
 
As Jon says, it can be done given a big enough budget but it's still not the same thrust as a turbo. I have both, with similar power, & they are totally different in their power delivery. The turbo is all about torque.

My GT3 develops 322 ft/lbs at 5600RPM but max power of 445BHP is at 7200 RPM. Also, I had to fit a Cup exhaust system to allow it to fully breathe which is too loud for any UK tracks. It's now too extreme to use regularly on the road anymore.

The 993 GT2 replica is also pretty loud with a Cargraphic system on, but it develops peak power at 5600 RPM and the torque curve is nice & fat from 2500 RPM. It's a nicer car to drive on the road, but I prefer the scalpel sharp GT3 for the track.

Maybe you'd be better off with a well-sorted GT2?
 
GT3GT3 said:
I think most people buy these cars as there is nothing more to do to them that Porsche has not !

And they're totally, totally wrong!

The GT3 is a great car as standard but there are compromises all over the place. The suspension & brakes are easily improved by using aftermarket parts. It all depends what you want to do with the car & what you want to get out of the car, but people who maintain that Porsche produce a perfect product which cannot be bettered are kidding themselves.
 
NXI20 said:
GT3GT3 said:
I think most people buy these cars as there is nothing more to do to them that Porsche has not !

And they're totally, totally wrong!

The GT3 is a great car as standard but there are compromises all over the place. The suspension & brakes are easily improved by using aftermarket parts. It all depends what you want to do with the car & what you want to get out of the car, but people who maintain that Porsche produce a perfect product which cannot be bettered are kidding themselves.

Nick - I wanted to ask this kinda question, but thought I would get some miles under my belt and have a good feel for the car before I look at mods.

If its not a drag to do - what would you say are the mods that one should consider and perhaps the order one should consider them?

- brakes: alcons/pagids, tick, thou it seems pagids/Pf out and endless in?
- suspension: kw's, tick, thou not sure if kw is the one you would suggest?
- front rad/bonnet cooling mod: tick, you mentioned you were not so sure of any benefit
- CF RS rear spolier: tick, other than nice to look at...?
- CF bonnet, tick, not sure worth the spend?
- geo: tick, obviously, but a 'good' one, not a cookie cutter...
- front cage: tick, but had it removed for road use
- MPSS: requires 19'' wheels

So - then, possible list of contenders:
- short shift: 997 one or manthey?
- shifting cables?
- engine mounts: RSS?
- bushes/tie arms/ track rods/uniball links/arms....?
- exhaust?
...
- others....?



Somewhere down the line then the engine upgrades: K410/440 etc.; 3.9...
 
NXI20 said:
GT3GT3 said:
I think most people buy these cars as there is nothing more to do to them that Porsche has not !

And they're totally, totally wrong!

The GT3 is a great car as standard but there are compromises all over the place. The suspension & brakes are easily improved by using aftermarket parts. It all depends what you want to do with the car & what you want to get out of the car, but people who maintain that Porsche produce a perfect product which cannot be bettered are kidding themselves.

Of course the GT3 has compromises. It is a road car that works quite well on track. I would say most are happy with that. There is no need to change anything on a GT3 to have a good time on track and for the car not to break into tiny pieces. Perfect ( who said perfect ?)... not perfect but pretty good.

If you have lots of cash to spend over and above the price of buying the car then you can make changes to chase the extra tenth of a second per lap if that is really important to you.

As you have indeed testified , too many modifications and the car loses its original purpose to work on track and on road and you end up with a race car with number plates thats not great to drive to the shops. In which case , just buy a cup car.

Sufficed to say - to get the oomph you crave will cost a fortune !
 
farook said:
My view change and upgrade when things wear out. As for your list in order:

- brakes: alcons/pagids, tick, thou it seems pagids/Pf out and endless in?2
- suspension: kw's, tick, thou not sure if kw is the one you would suggest?7 nothing wrong with KWs
- front rad/bonnet cooling mod: tick, you mentioned you were not so sure of any benefit
- CF RS rear spolier: tick, other than nice to look at...? 8
- CF bonnet, tick, not sure worth the spend? no need
- geo: tick, obviously, but a 'good' one, not a cookie cutter...1
- front cage: tick, but had it removed for road use3
- MPSS: requires 19'' wheels Not needed unless you upgrade brakes to 380mm go with cup tyres

So - then, possible list of contenders:
- short shift: 997 one or manthey?6
- shifting cables? been warned away from this mod as very noisy
- engine mounts: RSS?5
- bushes/tie arms/ track rods/uniball links/arms....?4
- exhaust?
...
- others....?

Cup Final drive gear 9
Cup LSD 1A
Gear box bush upgrade 5A



Somewhere down the line then the engine upgrades: K410/440 etc.; 3.9...
 
mods

Will be keeping it standard now keep this car for nice drive out's and for show's ect and my spec c for track- race -ring.

Many thanks for all the replies
 
farook said:
Nick - I wanted to ask this kinda question, but thought I would get some miles under my belt and have a good feel for the car before I look at mods.

If its not a drag to do - what would you say are the mods that one should consider and perhaps the order one should consider them?

- brakes: alcons/pagids, tick, thou it seems pagids/Pf out and endless in?
- suspension: kw's, tick, thou not sure if kw is the one you would suggest?
- front rad/bonnet cooling mod: tick, you mentioned you were not so sure of any benefit
- CF RS rear spolier: tick, other than nice to look at...?
- CF bonnet, tick, not sure worth the spend?
- geo: tick, obviously, but a 'good' one, not a cookie cutter...
- front cage: tick, but had it removed for road use
- MPSS: requires 19'' wheels

So - then, possible list of contenders:
- short shift: 997 one or manthey?
- shifting cables?
- engine mounts: RSS?
- bushes/tie arms/ track rods/uniball links/arms....?
- exhaust?
...
- others....?

When reading all the nonsense below, bear in mind that I do 20+ trackdays a year. This colours my thinking on what is worthwhile as any weakness shows up in the course of a season & I can't afford the downtime. Every mod is to either improve performance or increase durability (or both!). Bear all this in mind & adjust to what you expect to do with your car.

Pads: Endless are the best feel & stopping power I've ever had on the car but I'm reserving judgement until I see how long they last. At £800 a set for the fronts, they're not something I want to be replacing too often!

Suspension: It's all a matter of taste. If I was being asked for a recommendation that was in the same ballpark price as KW, I'd say Ohlins 2-way. I used Moton motorsport remote canisters because that was the best available before stepping up to JRZ or Penske race parts at $14,000+ at the time I did mine. There are other players in the market now.

Front rad: It does reduce lift at over 120 & I did notice it when I first did it. I don't now, but I suspect I would if it wasn't there. Balances out the RS wing.

CF bonnet: Never done it & in any case, it's saving weight at the wrong end. Lightweight battery is a better way to save weight at the front and it lowers the cog too.

MPSS: a nice option to have and given the way things are going with tyres, a set of 19" wheels is probably the best way to get better tyre choices & flexibility.

Shifter: I wouldn't bother with short-shift, just use the 997.2 GT3 standard shifter which has metal (not plastic) bearings.

Cables: These (combined with the LWFW) can be quite noisy (and talking to Mike at S&C, I suspect he's the person who warned Jon not to do it). I'm not so fussed about the noise, but since putting in the Sachs racing clutch from the 3.8RS, I've noticed the cables transmit much less noise. I do love the positive gearchange the cables & shifter give you though so in my book it's worth it.

Engine mounts: I use the 993RS mounts myself, but I hear good things about the RSS ones. You do need to do something to tame the engine moving under side loads but be aware that it will add to the vibration into the cabin.

I've gone full uniball / rose jointed suspension on mine because of three reasons:

1) I wanted to run slicks, which will kill the standard components double quick.
2) I was fed up of changing out the standard components due to wear
3) I wanted a geo to last a season without having to get it re-done halfway through.

The result has achieved all of the above + it has meant that I get very even tyre wear which saves money. The only thing I would say is it's not a "fit & forget" solution. First the joints all need protecting with rubber boots and second they need to be regularly checked for wear because once the wear starts, it will be rapid. The boots have so far done a great job of preventing wear. Some of the joints that came with components were made from chocolate & failed very fast. They were replace with aerospace-grade joints which have lasted for 40K+ miles.

Exhaust is certainly a way of liberating more horses - the K410 is basically exhaust + remap.

Others? Oh yes, a ton: replace the standard steering wheel with a Cup wheel. It changes the whole feel of the car for the better. While you're doing that, junk all the airbags which will save about 12KGs of dead weight. Install the IPD plenum and fit the 82mm throttle body. Get a remap. Cup front splitter - more lift reduction + they're half the price of the standard one. Motorsport LSD pack with slightly more aggressive ramp settings. Cup rear undertray with integral cooling ducts for the gearbox oilcooler.

I can't think of any more right now, but I'm sure I've missed some...
 
Re: mods

Big fud said:
Will be keeping it standard now keep this car for nice drive out's and for show's ect and my spec c for track- race -ring.

Many thanks for all the replies

A sensible move given the use you have specified. Maybe go aftermarket when things need replacing. You could of course spend your money on tuition ? Its not what your drive , its how you drive it :grin:
 
Re: mods

GT3GT3 said:
Big fud said:
Will be keeping it standard now keep this car for nice drive out's and for show's ect and my spec c for track- race -ring.

Many thanks for all the replies

A sensible move given the use you have specified. Maybe go aftermarket when things need replacing. You could of course spend your money on tuition ? Its not what your drive , its how you drive it :grin:

Tuition is a very good investment. Make sure you pick someone who really understands how the 911 needs to be driven though. If you get a chance, give Mike Wilds a try. Sharing a day with Mike will not only be hugely enjoyable because he's a real gent & has an easy way about him, but also if you get him to give you a couple of demo laps in your own car, it will open your eyes to what it can do & how annoyingly easy Mike makes it all look!

The next best thing is loads of seat time. It doesn't have to all be on a track - hooning around B-roads will also teach you a lot 8)
 
Great advice

Many thanks for your'e advice lad's.

I did the cat driver training in 2011 in my 580bhp 911 turbo was an amazing day with some great lad's and a great team showing us the way.

This car for me needs alot more driver input than my auto turbo and alot more than my subaru.

So i think i will take your'e advice and go see some one who knows this model very well.
:thumb: :thumb:
 
Cunno said:
farook said:
My view change and upgrade when things wear out. As for your list in order:

- brakes: alcons/pagids, tick, thou it seems pagids/Pf out and endless in?2
- suspension: kw's, tick, thou not sure if kw is the one you would suggest?7 nothing wrong with KWs
- front rad/bonnet cooling mod: tick, you mentioned you were not so sure of any benefit
- CF RS rear spolier: tick, other than nice to look at...? 8
- CF bonnet, tick, not sure worth the spend? no need
- geo: tick, obviously, but a 'good' one, not a cookie cutter...1
- front cage: tick, but had it removed for road use3
- MPSS: requires 19'' wheels Not needed unless you upgrade brakes to 380mm go with cup tyres

So - then, possible list of contenders:
- short shift: 997 one or manthey?6
- shifting cables? been warned away from this mod as very noisy
- engine mounts: RSS?5
- bushes/tie arms/ track rods/uniball links/arms....?4
- exhaust?
...
- others....?

Cup Final drive gear 9
Cup LSD 1A
Gear box bush upgrade 5A



Somewhere down the line then the engine upgrades: K410/440 etc.; 3.9...

Jon - thank you for this - I just saw your profile with some of your mods - makes mental note to connect with you sometime...I hope the amount spent ~£27k is not just on mods...? Otherwise I need to sell the car, and quickly...;)

So re your notes above:
I am amazed at where the Cup LSD sits in the order, 1a - please tell me more...as I was totally oblivious to this...

2, 3, 7, 8 - came with the car.
1 - just done at CofG

I think then from your suggestions the next set to consider are: 4,5,6.

Also, please tell me more about:
- Gear Box Bush upgrade, 5a
- Cup Final Drive Gear, 9
 

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