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Can anyone suggest someone to rebuild an M97.76?

Richard got back in touch, he thinks around 120 hours on a presumed good engine as mine (recent leak down test was all good and it still pulls like an ox!) depending on what they find/needs changing. That’s dropping it, strip down and rebuild and putting it back in.

£100 per hour at Tuthill by the way.
 
Richard got back in touch, he thinks around 120 hours on a presumed good engine as mine (recent leak down test was all good and it still pulls like an ox!) depending on what they find/needs changing. That’s dropping it, strip down and rebuild and putting it back in.

£100 per hour at Tuthill by the way.
Thanks for updating. That's useful information.
 
I presume you're looking at Ian's 997 RS engine plavix, hence the need for a rebuild? What are others views on opening up an engine for routine maintenance?

I know Nick's has seen a couple of rebuilds but what proceeded them? Were rebuilds done in a quest for more performance or out of failures?

There's a huge folder of (some very big) bills with my car, gearbox fully rebuilt and clutch/flywheel etc, dampers recently fully rebuilt, engine rebuilt but now 40k miles and some 10+ years ago...

I'm doing the interior this winter and some bodywork titivation-the previous (and only other) owner thinks I'm nuts to consider it but I quite like the thought of that being the whole car pretty much rebuilt once I'm finished. The main thing I can't find any evidence of being done is the coolant hoses being pinned. So when the engines out...
 
Yes, I've taken Ian's engine off his hands, although it's still cluttering up his workshop.

As for rebuilds, it's my impression that most have been dictated by the desire for more displacement, rather than precipitated by a failure. 3.6 to 3.8 appears to have been a simple, and cost effective affair in the past. I don't believe that is the case any longer as parts costs have increased by double. Routine maintenance is sensible in my opinion, perhaps at two to three times your mileage though. I had originally intended to preemptively have Hartech rebuild my M96 as @drmark did as mine is at almost 120K. I couldn't resist the opportunity for something different though.

I should have started my project with a GT3, the GTS would have been almost as good . . . if you're planning on keeping the car, and have no care for residuals, a ducktail, colour change, and retrim is well worth the investment for the satisfaction alone. Everyone secretly loves a ducktail!

Welding coolant lines seems like the perfect excuse for a rebuild . . .
 
I presume you're looking at Ian's 997 RS engine plavix, hence the need for a rebuild? What are others views on opening up an engine for routine maintenance?

I know Nick's has seen a couple of rebuilds but what proceeded them? Were rebuilds done in a quest for more performance or out of failures?
I first had a rebuild in about 2012 after 4 years & many trackdays. Engine had 85k miles / 1700 hours on it & I wanted the coolant lines welded anyway. The engine was totally healthy (1-2% leakdown) but I wanted to try the Capricorn 3.9 kit out. This was problematic initially (rings incorrectly gapped by Capricorn) and then 1 piston failed after around 40K miles. The piston clearances at cold are enormous due to the steel liners Capricorn supply so the engine clatters its head off until warm & we suspect this eventually caused the piston failure.

Rebuild 2 was as a 3.8 using all OEM parts. Eventually a stuck injector caused catastrophic bore wash on cylinder #2 which destroyed some of the Nikasil liner and so that engine only lasted 60K miles.

Rebuild 3 was as a 4.0 and should have been the one I did as rebuild #1 but hindsight is always 20/20 :)
As an aside, when the original crank was measured it was within tolerance but judged to be unable to go another 50K miles. My car is massively over-serviced so it gets many oil changes per year & has always run on 10W60. It doesn't do short journeys either.

My advice to anyone considering a capacity increase is just go 4.0, it's so different to the other variants with bags of torque & a different, deeper exhaust note to the other Mezgers. I love it.

In general, I'd say treat the Mezger like the aircooled its based on. At 120K miles it's going to feel a bit tired. The timing chains stretch & the guides wear. The top end will also be getting tired & things like guides & springs will need attention. I replaced all of these plus valves & oil pump on every build which may have been unnecessary but it builds in reliability. I also replaced the rods in build #1 because Titanium cracks eventually...

A good question to ask any potential builder of a 4.0 is "What oil pump will you use?". If the reply isn't "the standard one with custom trimming to clear the crank" they either haven't built a 4.0 and so don't know the standard pump won't allow the crank to rotate or they're happy for the customer to be charged double what a standard pump costs (~£1K last time I bought one) and for Porsche to spend the 5 minutes to trim it to fit...
 
Ah good info all, Nick mine is also a Capricorn Manthey built 3.9 but no clatter on mine, currently on 83k miles and conversion done circa 40k miles.

The original pistons and barrels are still with the car but as I suspect you feel, once you've experienced a big torque engine you don't want to go back!
 
I think that’s a good point, these high revving low(er) torque cars like the 911K must be awesome for a quick blast, or if you’re racing, but after an hour you’ve had enough.

Higher displacement and the resulting torque seems to be where people eventually end up at if they’ve got the money to do it.

I’ve even been discouraged from a lighter flywheel because it gets hard work after a while. It sounds trivial but my Caterham was a pain when in traffic and pulling away, I actually started to get anxious at roundabouts and anywhere I needed to get away quickly because I either revved the tits off it and rode the clutch or stalled, and I’m used to race engines.

Re: the starting point - I also wish I’d have started with a GT3, but then I’d have constantly been having the “have I devalued a significant future investment” argument in my head every ten minutes. I want to do it with my 930, but I’d probably spend £80k getting 500bhp and it ending up worth half as much as a standard car.
 
The devaluation only comes into it if you plan to sell, if you’re not planning to do that anytime soon then you may as well do whatever you want with the car, it’s yours after all

Re the lighter flywheel, it’s not an issue on the 997 as the idle valve will prevent rpm dropping too much. If crawling in traffic I don’t need throttle to move off, even on a very slight incline
 
The devaluation only comes into it if you plan to sell, if you’re not planning to do that anytime soon then you may as well do whatever you want with the car, it’s yours after all

Agreed 100%..
It shouldn't matter but I wasn't born rich and even if I became a billionaire I still can't manage to ignore the price of these things, a car sitting at £150k with the potential to increase to goodness knows what will still niggle away at me at the back of my mind.

This is why (and I'm sure I've said this) I chose to commission an 'RS' build from a 996 C4S with a busted engine, I'll be spending six figures to get it done how I want it and it will probably never be worth any more than half that even on a really good day if ever I tried to sell it.
This means it will probably never get sold and I'll hopefully never be precious about it because it's never going to be worth much, even though it will cost not far off what a factory RS would cost me.

I've got a mate that owns a 959 and he still sold his 997 GT3RS because the value of it made him not want to track it anymore.
For some of us that future value potential isn't something that can be totally ignored. In fact, if 996 RS's all became worth £5k tomorrow then you'd probably see loads out on the track because they're awesome things, but I've probably only ever seen one or two on a track in the last few years.
 
For some of us that future value potential isn't something that can be totally ignored. In fact, if 996 RS's all became worth £5k tomorrow then you'd probably see loads out on the track because they're awesome things, but I've probably only ever seen one or two on a track in the last few years.

Tracking cars is a peculiar sub-species. People will always buy the newest shiny to track because they're faster than last years model. I hardly see any 996 GT3s on track these days & even 997s are becoming a rare sight. At a recent DN event at the 'ring, there were, IIRC, 6 992RSs & this at a track where Insurance is becoming increasingly difficult & expensive to find. I lost count of the number of 991 & 992 GT3s, all of which are more valuable than a 996RS. So, value doesn't figure so much as you think for trackday addicts I'd venture.
 
Tracking cars is a peculiar sub-species. People will always buy the newest shiny to track because they're faster than last years model. I hardly see any 996 GT3s on track these days & even 997s are becoming a rare sight. At a recent DN event at the 'ring, there were, IIRC, 6 992RSs & this at a track where Insurance is becoming increasingly difficult & expensive to find. I lost count of the number of 991 & 992 GT3s, all of which are more valuable than a 996RS. So, value doesn't figure so much as you think for trackday addicts I'd venture.

Yeah I suppose that's a good point, most of these people are there to get the quickest lap times they can and the newer machinery enables that.

Personally I'm just there for fun, always have been, even as a 19yr old the most fun class I raced motorcycles in was the Forgotten Era class and I rode my sponsors 1970's pukka GP bike. If I went back to racing now I'd probably race twin-shock motocross bikes from the 80's.

I can see the appeal of a track day with a new GT3RS, those things are insane and seem to defy physics, but given the choice I'd 100% rather be in a 3.0L RSR and lapping slower, although a proper RSR is probably four times the value of a new GT3RS.
 
I remember seeing a guy in a 2.7RS Lightweight at Dony years ago. He told me he only uses the car for 1 trackday around his birthday every year, the rest of the time it sits in his garage. Good man!
 

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