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Borescore and Borescope - the new normal for 997.1

This a subject that’s been niggling away at me now that I’m a fully fledged owner of a MY07 997 C2 with 135k miles on the clock.

I was recently planning on changing the spark plugs - my Indy suggested a borescope. Why, I asked? Just checking, he said, just in case you wanted to scramble down that rabbit hole otherwise called “preventative maintenance.” I politely declined because my car doesn’t use oil in between services, holds good oil pressure and there’s no soot on the passenger’s side exhaust tips. Why would I therefore want to know whether I wanted to spend the best part of £15k on the car or not? Not, thanks.

So it got me thinking - why do folk ask for a borescope just for the sake of it? What are they hoping to achieve? It’d be like taking an HIV test in the olden days (they’re that now in 2024) just for checking’s sake. Who would?

Further, when selling a car and the buyer wants a borescope done as part of the PPI, would you allow it, especially if the cars was in tip. Top condition without symptoms? Ok the buyer might walk away if you refused, but what if they did a scope and it came back “positive” you’d be left with a headache and a huge bill. Personally I wouldn’t want to know so I’d politely decline and carry on advertising.

In 2024 borescope are the norm - it’s everywhere. What would you do?
Im in the market for a 997 and every one i speak to , eg club members etc say its the best 300 quid ur spend, but i do appreciate someone not wanting there motor messed about with by someone and theres always a risk they don’t carry the procedure out perfectly.?!
 
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That's a good point - there was a story I'd read about the a bit of the engineer's borescope falling off into the cylinder and a massive nightmare ensuring to recover said part and not totally destroying the engine.

Probably best / safest to get a borescope done before selling but someone decent.
 
That's a good point - there was a story I'd read about the a bit of the engineer's borescope falling off into the cylinder and a massive nightmare ensuring to recover said part and not totally destroying the engine.

Probably best / safest to get a borescope done before selling but someone decent.
That’s mental. Do you have the link to this story?
 
That's a good point - there was a story I'd read about the a bit of the engineer's borescope falling off into the cylinder and a massive nightmare ensuring to recover said part and not totally destroying the engine.

Probably best / safest to get a borescope done before selling but someone decent.

That’s mental. Do you have the link to this story?
I assume it's this write up
 
Thanks @Mac68 that's the one!
 
I assume it's this write up
Oh dear oh dear what an experience!! 🤦🏼
 
A cautionary tale for us and even though the result was a favourable one and the PPI company was a bit lax, at least they took responsibility for their mistake. How many other times has this type of mistake happened, perhaps a smaller object that has later manifested itself and lunched the engine? What if there were scratches in the bores, would the PPI company still fork out for a rebuild, especially if 4 and 5 were scored?

In all of this mash up the prospective buyer bears no responsibility for anything. It’s all on the seller, the PPI company. The. buyer could just walk away and buy something else leaving the seller with a headache and probable financial ruin. All because prospective buyers choose to ignore the fundamentals of buying a secondhand car and instead rely on someone else to do it for them.

I’m glad it worked out in the end, though.
 
As a footnote to this story, I was chatting to a guy the other day who had been trying to sell his MY06 C2S Cab Tip. 98k miles with FSH and a recent 4k spend overhauling the suspension. He’d had it advertised for 4 months or so and had pitched the price at £25k and gradually reduced it to £22k.

The issue that he found was that interested folk would always ask whether it had been scoped. It hadn’t, so he finally bit the bullet and had it scoped. Cylinder 6 was in a bad way. Interestingly he hadn’t noticed the darker tail pipe and the faint tapping from the near side bank of the engine. The signs were there but he didn’t have a clue, he just drove it

So he slashed the price, taking a loss of £15k, and put it on AT. Interested as I’d just sold my SLK 55, I popped along to have a look and plugged my Foxwell NT530 in for codes. P0073 (ambient air temp sensor) came up as did a host of others, but the roof worked, the AT transmission worked and it appeared to idle fine. 3k mile since it’s last service and the oil level was at the correct level. But it was scored for sure. It’ll need doing sooner rather than later and the owner decided not to touch it pending a visit to Hartech.

So I bought it. Yes I am crazy and I don’t know what I’ll do with it. Perhaps change the oil to Nano something 10W 50, drive it for the summer and decide from there. I might fix it or I might sell it on in the future as is, but I’ve taken the plunge.

Here it is, soon to be joining my base 3.6.
 
As a footnote to this story, I was chatting to a guy the other day who had been trying to sell his MY06 C2S Cab Tip. 98k miles with FSH and a recent 4k spend overhauling the suspension. He’d had it advertised for 4 months or so and had pitched the price at £25k and gradually reduced it to £22k.

The issue that he found was that interested folk would always ask whether it had been scoped. It hadn’t, so he finally bit the bullet and had it scoped. Cylinder 6 was in a bad way. Interestingly he hadn’t noticed the darker tail pipe and the faint tapping from the near side bank of the engine. The signs were there but he didn’t have a clue, he just drove it

So he slashed the price, taking a loss of £15k, and put it on AT. Interested as I’d just sold my SLK 55, I popped along to have a look and plugged my Foxwell NT530 in for codes. P0073 (ambient air temp sensor) came up as did a host of others, but the roof worked, the AT transmission worked and it appeared to idle fine. 3k mile since it’s last service and the oil level was at the correct level. But it was scored for sure. It’ll need doing sooner rather than later and the owner decided not to touch it pending a visit to Hartech.

So I bought it. Yes I am crazy and I don’t know what I’ll do with it. Perhaps change the oil to Nano something 10W 50, drive it for the summer and decide from there. I might fix it or I might sell it on in the future as is, but I’ve taken the plunge.

Here it is, soon to be joining my base 3.6.
Mega, looks like a gorgeous car!

I know it’s not normally done, but do you mind sharing what the ballpark purchase price was? Would be very useful for anyone out there in a similar position, as it seems there’s very little reference for what a scored/not yet rebuilt car is worth.

If it’s not using much oil, conceivably you could just keep driving it for a while before deciding how to address the issue?
 
Mega, looks like a gorgeous car!

I know it’s not normally done, but do you mind sharing what the ballpark purchase price was? Would be very useful for anyone out there in a similar position, as it seems there’s very little reference for what a scored/not yet rebuilt car is worth.

If it’s not using much oil, conceivably you could just keep driving it for a while before deciding how to address the issue?
Thanks Jerzy but I’ll pass on revealing the price that I paid for it, I really wouldn’t want this to set a benchmark for future purchases/sales as I’m not sure it is representative. For example, Invictus Porsche sold a couple of cars with Borescore and under 100k mikes for £17,995 last month or so. I didn’t pay that.

My point in all of this and for starting this thread, is the precarious position that sellers are in today if/when they choose to sell a car. A borescope is a minimum requirement that buyers demand. It’s a slippery slope and is likely to impact residuals over time as the internet claims as many as 80% of these cars will develop this affliction, not if but when.

If you’re a Hartech, AMS or any of those shops that can rebuild these, you’ll be rubbing your hands as there’s plenty of work to go round, and when that’s done 997.2’s will be next.

While I’m at it, I think the coupes look better than the cabs in my eyes.
 
Edited: "as many as 100% of these cars will develop this affliction, not if but when."

It's a design flaw with the pistons and liners. At some point in its life it will happen, unless something else kills it before.
 
Loving the Devil may care! Enjoy it and hopefully the rain will stop so you can drop the roof!
 
Mines been rebuilt and in the event it were to go again, I'd deal with it when it happens, I'd not go looking for it.

Understandably a buyer would probably want to check for it, and unfortunately, I likely couldn't be arsed sorting one out, so I'll just run it into the ground as a result.
I'm completely lazy and I hate selling things, almost as much as I hate people.
That combination means I'll never be able to give a buyer confidence.

Man maths, right?
 
Loving the Devil may care! Enjoy it and hopefully the rain will stop so you can drop the roof!
No, not devil may care, I’m risk averse. I’ve gone into this with my eyes wide open and considered the downside risks.

My plan is to get it serviced and MOT’d and drive it for summer. It’ll be my 3rd car, competing with an EV and 997.1 coupe, so I’d expect to cover no more than 2k miles a year and see what happens.

If I can get on with the TIP, I might even look at a 4.1 conversion. If not, I’ll sell or swap it for something else.
 

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