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Another newbie looking for opinions

quady

New member
Joined
20 Mar 2013
Messages
1
Hi All,

Yes, someone else who has cottoned onto the idea of a 996 for VW Polo money (well the upfront cost anyway!). Although I've done a decent number of miles in low end hire cars (110 miles in an i20 today as it goes) this would be my first car.

The consensus seems to be the C2 is preferred over the C4 by 'purists', however my gut instinct is I'd rather than 300bph hitting the road through four wheels rather than two. Am I being overly cautious? Are there any typical service costs that would kick in with the C4 (haven't seen any but assuming the mechanism isn't bulletproof)? Is tire wear any better on the C4?

I seem to be quite taken by cars with the GT3 aero kit. Personally I think it compliments the lines, are people generally fans? They seem to go for more money and finding it a bit difficult to justify a £11,500 version with GT3 over a £10k without.

I haven't seen many with over 150k on the clock, nor much info on the IMS issue surfacing after 75k. Do people think the IMS can happen at any time (if it ever does) or if a car has done over say 90k it won't be the problem child? If the latter, what stops there being more high milers (ire over 120k).

I think thats all for now!

Thanks
 
:welcome:

Have a look here (and search for others) for C2 vs C4 opinions and facts:

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=66446

Well, I have two main view points on the purist vs cautious:

1) the difference is negligible in everyday driving (ie the C4 is 95% RWD)
2) the difference is stark in emergencies - the C4 becomes AWD (40% FWD and 60% RWD), and all C4 come with PSM (stability and traction control) as standard.

As for additional servicing costs, at 90k miles the front diff oil should be changed (so too should the rear diff, but obviously it is the front diff that is the additional C4 cost)

As for C4 tyre wear, well that cuts both ways: the rears wear less, but the fronts wear more (ie for the C4, drive is shared and spinning wheels reduced)

I love the AeroKit (GT3 kit) and Porsche not only charged more for it when new, but the used market continues with a premium - that probably answers the overall desirability question.

But even if the above was not true, if you like it, buy it.

Did you ask people whether you should buy a 911? Perhaps you did, but did the people who said "no" change your heart?

IMS tends to kill cars early, if they survive to old age, then they are probably OK (that isn't meant to sound vague, just nothing is certain and you will always find an exception).

With regard to high mileage 996s, I guess other things start killing 996s long before they generally hit that age, like the fact a 120-150k mile 996 is "too cheap" to service or maintain properly

ie the first £2k fix kills an £8-£10k car: it just becomes salvage

Don't forget, these were £100k motors, and although you might find cheap oil (DON'T!), many parts are ONLY from Porsche and priced accordingly.

Having said that, over 10% of 996 Carrera on PistonHeads are over 100k milers.
 
GT4 said:
As for C4 tyre wear, well that cuts both ways: the rears wear less, but the fronts wear more (ie for the C4, drive is shared and spinning wheels reduced)

sorry Paul but I have to disagree with that.
Having owned 2 4S's, I've replaced way more rear tyres than I have front.
Sure the drive is shared, but I believe the bulk of the drive train is still at the rear (not sure of the percentage split).
 
Only thing I will say is that most 911's look good with a big rear wing. retrofitting them will cost and also lose points on orignaliy so make sure you get one with a factory aero kit if thats your thing.

Winny.
 
spectraluk said:
GT4 said:
As for C4 tyre wear, well that cuts both ways: the rears wear less, but the fronts wear more (ie for the C4, drive is shared and spinning wheels reduced)

sorry Paul but I have to disagree with that.
Having owned 2 4S's, I've replaced way more rear tyres than I have front.
Sure the drive is shared, but I believe the bulk of the drive train is still at the rear (not sure of the percentage split).

Lee - I read Paul's statement as meaning "the rears wear less, but the fronts wear more" in comparison to a C2? Does that make sense?
 
rottenbend said:
spectraluk said:
GT4 said:
As for C4 tyre wear, well that cuts both ways: the rears wear less, but the fronts wear more (ie for the C4, drive is shared and spinning wheels reduced)

sorry Paul but I have to disagree with that.
Having owned 2 4S's, I've replaced way more rear tyres than I have front.
Sure the drive is shared, but I believe the bulk of the drive train is still at the rear (not sure of the percentage split).

Lee - I read Paul's statement as meaning "the rears wear less, but the fronts wear more" in comparison to a C2? Does that make sense?

Understood - that does make sense now, re-reading it...!
:worship:
 
Hi Quady
Welcome!
Buy an enthusiasts car with good history and enjoy!

GT4 said:
:welcome:

Have a look here (and search for others) for C2 vs C4 opinions and facts:

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=66446


With regard to high mileage 996s, I guess other things start killing 996s long before they generally hit that age, like the fact a 120-150k mile 996 is "too cheap" to service or maintain properly

ie the first £2k fix kills an £8-£10k car: it just becomes salvage
.

That's an interesting point....
I think this also depends very much on the car and the owner GT, I understand completely that there's no point throwing good money after bad and an old bin is just that, agreed....but even with my miles as the car is in good nick and didn't cost an awful lot I'm happy to pay for proper maintenance for my old chugger, plus Hartech's warranty. I wouldn't splash out a lot on expensive wheels, suspension upgrades, stereo, interior, bodykits, respray etc. as that would be wasted money to me on an old timer but maintenance and realistic improvements yes. Like you say they were all expensive once, if your lucky enough to get hold of a decent unmolested old 996 it is still an old expensive car that deserves proper treatment, the bills come with the badge of course, as you say 'buyer beware'.
I've probably shelled out close to £3k on maintenance and improving mine since August and I know it will never be worth much on paper but I didn't pay a lot and I like nurturing old timers back to rude health and putting a few years back into them :thumb:
Your right though don't hear of many long leggers like mine...
:?:


Dave
 
Couldn't agree more. No one wants to spend a kings ransom on their car, but needs must within reason.

I got a good deal on my car too (private sale) and yes I've spent bit on it since buying it in August last year, but was well prepared having owned a Boxster before. Yes, they cost money to run as well... :wink:
 
spectraluk said:
GT4 said:
As for C4 tyre wear, well that cuts both ways: the rears wear less, but the fronts wear more (ie for the C4, drive is shared and spinning wheels reduced)

sorry Paul but I have to disagree with that.
Having owned 2 4S's, I've replaced way more rear tyres than I have front.
Sure the drive is shared, but I believe the bulk of the drive train is still at the rear (not sure of the percentage split).

Erm, having owned 2 C4s myself ....

Apologies if it wasn't clear, the comparison was between C2 and C4 (than being the question: " Is tire wear any better on the C4?").

I meant the C4 fronts wear more than the idle C2 fronts, and the effect of both shared drive and lessened rear wheel slip is the C4 rears wear less than the C2 rears)
 
smigga said:
Hi Quady
Welcome!
Buy an enthusiasts car with good history and enjoy!

GT4 said:
:welcome:

Have a look here (and search for others) for C2 vs C4 opinions and facts:

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=66446


With regard to high mileage 996s, I guess other things start killing 996s long before they generally hit that age, like the fact a 120-150k mile 996 is "too cheap" to service or maintain properly

ie the first £2k fix kills an £8-£10k car: it just becomes salvage
.

That's an interesting point....
I think this also depends very much on the car and the owner GT, I understand completely that there's no point throwing good money after bad and an old bin is just that, agreed....but even with my miles as the car is in good nick and didn't cost an awful lot I'm happy to pay for proper maintenance for my old chugger, plus Hartech's warranty. I wouldn't splash out a lot on expensive wheels, suspension upgrades, stereo, interior, bodykits, respray etc. as that would be wasted money to me on an old timer but maintenance and realistic improvements yes. Like you say they were all expensive once, if your lucky enough to get hold of a decent unmolested old 996 it is still an old expensive car that deserves proper treatment, the bills come with the badge of course, as you say 'buyer beware'.
I've probably shelled out close to £3k on maintenance and improving mine since August and I know it will never be worth much on paper but I didn't pay a lot and I like nurturing old timers back to rude health and putting a few years back into them :thumb:
Your right though don't hear of many long leggers like mine...
:?:


Dave

I completely agree, and the people on this this forum are very special, most owners can't be bothered or don't have the love, understanding and commitment to the degree we do.

So I am not saying all 996 and I am definitely not making a personal or individual insult, but my point was overall, in general and statistically - because the question was why there appears to be less of those age or mileage cars for sale.

ie the older/higher mileage 996 population in total is below the level expected, and hence that raised the valid question from Quady of "Why?" (and the wary proposition that the cars were possibly not surviving for some specific defect or wear reason).

I tried to make the point in the 996's defence that there is no specific mechanical/technical/design reason for the removal of these cars from the road, just simple economics applied across all ownerships where by a not uncommon "£2k" maintenance bill (just a major service, some tyres and an exhaust can exceed this) will render the car uneconomic for those unprepared (either mechanically or financially).

Simply the number of vehicles going through prep at a used dealer may fall foul, where there is no love and cold hard cash is king and the dealer draws a line under the required works and ships to auction or direct to salvage will mean a certain number of 996 never see their 150k mile.
 
I knew where you were coming from Paul, and your right most people especially dealers wince when you talk of 100k and beyond, I myself remember looking at mine and sending the ad to my brother saying 'pity about the miles'.
I then spent 3 months on this as you rightly say great forum and through the kind help and freely supplied knowledge from people like you, learned a fair bit about what to look for. After 3 months I decided after looking at hundreds daily and nearly viewing 2 but then deciding against them for various reasons that mine didn't actually look such a bad prospect given its recent work and warranty so I met the owner. He was the 3rd owner to love and maintain my car properly so I bought it, rightly or wrongly with 138k showing! Now on 141k I find the mileage becoming part of the cars character. :D
Where are the big milers? It's a good question, I suppose most makes just disappear when they look like false economy. Lets hope the good folk of this and other 911 clubs keep these great motors ticking over well into old age....

:thumb:
Dave
 
I see many 996s that are not cared for eventually being broken up for spares, and believe that many of these cars, now affordable are falling into the hands of those that may not be prepared for the ongoing maintenance costs. I can only see values increasing as more 996s end up being owned by enthusiasts like those that use this forum. As the model range gets older, engine rebuilds will be the norm, and regular pandering to rest of the components, including bodywork and interior will ensure that the range goes on to be a collectors piece.

I know that mine is a keeper and with that in mind have planned for such things as engine rebuilds and upgrade of components - just don't tell the wife :oops:
 
Well said...

There is an interesting article in 911 and Porsche World April edition that seems to share this view as well (page 23).

At some point things will settle down, just like the older gen 911s
 

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