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Age/mileage/owners and the premium

dng

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5 Mar 2022
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Assuming everything else is constant e.g. cosmetically/mechanically/well specced. Say its a 991.1 S

Do people see a premium for say a 2012 vs a 2015 model?

If a car had 3 owners vs 5 owners?

If a car had 30k vs 40k miles - I know for sure there is markup here

Was wondering which people/dealers value the most - ideal world obviously the newest/lowest mileage/fewest owners for the cheapest...but do people think one of them holds a significant premium more

e.g. would there be value in getting a 2015 but with more miles vs a 2013 with lower miles
 
I'm no expert but I'd say assuming all models in that time slot are the same. I.e no facelift etc. then lower miles would be more attractive than age of the vehicle.
Number if owners is an odd one imho, these cars change hands a fair bit and sensible buyers know this.

I'm sure there will be an Analyst along shortly who will provide a pie chart giving a more accurate assessment but that's my two penneth.
 
I agree with the above.

No of Owners - Its more unusual to find a one owner car than anything else. On a 7- 10 year old car, if its one owner thats almost a unicorn car. But is it worth more than a 3 owner car all other things being equal... not in my eyes, perhaps a very small premium at best. As Wilpert stated however these cars do change hands quite a lot, certainly compared to any normal cars and sensible buyers are aware of this. Whats of more interest is frequency and mileage that each owner puts on the car. Does this point to any snags / issues with a particular car. Ie if a car is 5 years old but has had 6 owners with none of them owning it a year or doing any significant mileage...does that point to a Friday lemon?

Year - You wont see a huge difference between a 2 year gap in the age of a car once cars reach 6 or more years old. The newer that cars are especially when under 5 years old, yes it has an effect and generally speaking the newer the car the larger the price gap between the lower registration , ie for example if you look at the latest 992 cars there is atleast a 5k differemce between each reg ie 19 plate vs a 69 plate car. Atleast a 10k gap between a 19 and 20 car and 15k gap between a late 21 car and a 20 car, all things being equal. But as cars age this price gap starts to converge and disappear. Only condition, mileage, colour and spec will play a larger role in re-sale value, ease of sale. Once again as Wilpert stated if they cross a generation model ie 991.1 vs 991.2 then yes expect a price gap, otherwise there will be a divergence.

Mileage - This tends to be a price mover when cars go over milestones ( say 50k miles ) or have super low mileage - ie less than 1,500 miles a year. Otherwise its a bit of a mute point for Carrera / S / 4S and to a slightly lesser point GTS models if the difference between two cars is relatively small and not across milestone figures (look on Autotrader for bracket mileage and note generally speaking OPC will not sell a car over 45k miles ( although things are a little odd at present due to lack of stock). Generally its the GT cars which are far more mileage sensitive. Personally I like to see a car which has been used each year on a regular basis rather than a super low mileage garage queen. Circa 3-5k a year is more than acceptable and standard affair as for many people these cars are 2nd / 3rd cars and toys more than daily drivers. When one has been used in my eyes you know it should be reliable and any minor issues would have been picked up and hopefully sorted during its annual use. So ideally I would want to pick one up that sits in this bracket. - ie 3-5k miles a year. If its slightly older car but with less miles as per your example, I would look at other things like spec and condition more than purely miles. All things equal then I would plump for lower miles as long as it wasnt super low. Otherwise I would be afraid of depreciating it by driving it !!

I hear more issues with super low mileage cars than anything else. Cars like to be driven and its good for them to go through proper heat cyles.

Buy the spec and colour you want with decent mileage and you wont go too far wrong. You should always buy based on condition, condition and condition... everything else ( owners etc ) are mute points and splitting hairs in my opinion.

Jungle
 
dng said:
......... e.g. would there be value in getting a 2015 but with more miles vs a 2013 with lower miles

Jungle has summed things up quite comprehensively although I would add that 'service history' is also very important.

With regard to the query above it depends upon the actual difference in mileage but as they're the same generation of car I'd expect to pay about the same money - if all other things are equal.
 
While as in general a car purchase can be one of the largest purchases/debts that an average person might be involved in, and as such mulling over the minutiae can take up a lot of time and provide a number of headaches... I know, it took me circa two years of contemplating before I took the plunge in a way I would never have imagined...

For sure research and the education it provides can be an important in terms of building enough confidence to create parameters and a personal perspective on an imagined ideal specification, but then in reality trying to find that spec in the used market can easily eat up more time to even get as near as possible to that spec, and time can be of the essence..?

The folk on 911UK were very patient with my stupid questions during the time it took me to get back into Porsche ownership.. I could have been driving a Porsche two years earlier had I just gone out and done the deed when I first thought of doing so. Perhaps worth considering might be... who knows what tomorrow brings, thus it seems there will ever be a degree of gamble involved...?

Gamble...? From that which you type you are contemplating buying an OLD car... and to add to that risk, the machine in question is an OLD SPORTS CAR... The difference in the life two seemingly identical Porsches standing side by side might have lived, could be night and day... You only need look at some of the many vids of accident damaged repaired vehicles to know how much can be hidden under a glossy coat of paint..?

OK so some folk may not like JWW`s marketing vids, but this one might give a rough idea of a smart car that has been "tampered" with, though there are vids of total wrecks being repaired in foreign parts that could be imported/reimported having avoided the more usual "recording" processes relative to their pre-repaired accident damage..?

https://youtu.be/XpwevTFu1Y8

After which there are the influences of the market to gamble with and try to predict... Two years ago my desire was to buy a reasonable running air cooled 911 for £25k, That was my personal evaluation back then of average worth to ME, given I had owned, restored and run three air cooled 911`s over a period of a decade or more up until the 90`s, and as best I can remember, the last of which was quite smart had no unresolved issues circa 80-100k miles and as best I can remember sold for £11k. It came as quite a shock the find out the effect of the markets on what I knew to be occasionally corroded, and potentially troublesome machines that could be expensive..nay, VERY expensive to repair..!!

All things considered I decided to abandon the air cooled desire, and go modern, ending up the happy owner of a 991.1 Bought from a large BMW dealership who carried out all their checks and tests to satisfy themselves that this Porsche was up to the standards required of their circa 125 point check system for sale by them as an approved pre-owned car... Which I followed up with the more usual HPI checks, and once I had bought the car it was given the benefit of a Complimentary condition check at my local Porsche centre, who found the tyre sealant to be out of date, an issue which the BMW dealership resolved being in the same motor group as my Porsche centre..which no doubt made that less of an issue than it might otherwise have been..? After three months of ownership my 991 was eligible for the 111 point check in order to hopefully get it on to the Porsche extended warranty scheme and an issue cropped up with the alarm siren which the BMW dealership`s Insurance based guarantee covered the cost of that.

Porsche extended warranty scheme.... Seen as reducing the gamble relating to possible and rather expensive issues that have been known to affect some Porsches, and of course other high end marques..

All a bit long winded but hopefully might assist in your decision making processes to some degree.. :?:
 
I think that buyers are a bit obsessed with mileage, and as such I'd take the younger car. Arguably it's less likely to be a city car with low miles from just sitting in traffic, with loads of short journeys and heat cycles, and bumps and nicks from car parks and shagged suspension from pot holes, if it's just been driven from some pad in the country.

But at the end of the day, it's about condition, and things like the colour scheme (some you can live with, some you can't).
 
dng said:
If a car had 3 owners vs 5 owners?

If a car had 30k vs 40k miles - I know for sure there is markup here

Was wondering which people/dealers value the most - ideal world obviously the newest/lowest mileage/fewest owners for the cheapest...but do people think one of them holds a significant premium more

e.g. would there be value in getting a 2015 but with more miles vs a 2013 with lower miles

I think one owner per two years is pretty average for a 991.1, I was put off by too many owners above that. But with a full history it wasn't a deal breaker when I purchased my C4S.

I preference age over mileage, because they are price sensitive on mileage. I had a strict budget so I couldn't afford a newer car with low mileage. But even in one generation of car there are things that get ironed out in production (2011 vs. 2014 991 for example). And 2 years on the road/outside is a fair bit of time.

If you can afford that immaculate car with 15k miles on it then fine but the price span on a 991.1 S is about 20k. I'd sooner take the newer car with higher miles over an older car with low miles and save the money at the point of purchase (they will all get road rash and that can be sorted relatively cheaply). I just think you get a lower depreciation as a result. 60k miles on a 2014 car was my limit and I found a nice 991 C4S with 55k miles for 55k which I will only put around 3-4k miles per year, so it's got plenty of warranty life left in it.

My budget precluded OPC cars that were the right spec so in the end I focused on Ashgood and Cameron as they had the volume going through at the time at good prices. I didn't rule out private sales with OPC warranty.

Those are my thoughts, if I had a bigger budget I would probably have moved straight to a 991.2 and again not bothered too much about miles, although my main requirement at the time was for a NA engine.
 

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