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991. 1 questions.

Luddite

Indianapolis
Joined
18 Dec 2018
Messages
2,485
Having bought what I think is a 2012/ 2013 MY C4s, I have a few questions, no doubt many more to follow.. (-:
Hopefully I have attached a pic of a couple of plastic retaining clips found in the glove compartment I wondered what their purpose is. Also I have seen extensions being used to assist align wheels when re-fitting them, not finding them in the tool "kit" I wondered if they were Porsche O.E. or after-market parts, that I am best to purchase..?

Having read quite a few 991.1 contributions for which I am thankful. One that kinda follows on from my couple of years of reading of exhaust manifold retaining bolts on various models and the requirement for the use of Stormsky (?) jigs to drill and tap out cyl heads to allow for replacement fixings, is one that frustrated me relative to the build quality and material choices that it seems Porsche have adopted which seems to differ from the standards of our air cooled brethren`s machinery..? That typed it seems that in a period as short as three years from new OP`s may be suggesting replacement of exhaust fixings and clips, which I find a tad disappointing given the manifold bolts on my old crate can be loosened with ease ( I tried a couple to test) OK so it was restored 20 years ago and had SS bolts used in all sorts of locations so expected to perform better than most metals ...BUT..?

I guess if I want to tidy up the fixings around the engine bay and might wish to apply for the extended warranty, I am stuck to buying OE kit which may corrode to some degree in three years as opposed to any up market fixings made from superior materials...?

I also expect it best to remove the (Zunsport ? grills) before it is subjected to the necessary 111point check..?

Fortunately still running N rated tyres, and OE battery so fingers crossed, though will have to wait another couple of months as I am only one month into custodianship... (-:

Thanks if you have read this far.
 

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Clips in glove box are to secure a pen.
 
I would suggest checking with OPC before removing the grills. I have seen 911 with grills fitted on for sale from a Porsche centre.
 
:agree: I tend to just ask OPC on things like whether grills would need to be removed etc. becasue they will continually update their policies and no doubt have some pragmatism.

I would ask via email. When I spoke to them about the warranty I wrote down the prices and also asked about the major service price; I wrote down £895 (back in January). When I went in for the 111 check they said the major service fixed price was £1200, they weren't able to explain the £895 quote I was given :nooo: .

When I was there I did ask about what is covered re. the exhaust; essentially any corrosion not covered. I did mention the tendency for the bolts to corrode and they mentioned using stainless, but also muttered something about not mating two different types of steel etc. As there was no mention of any corrosion in the check they didn't see much sense in replacing them all with stainless; maybe they'll last the lifetime of the exhaust anyway :dont know:
 
Hi Luddite,

Wheel Mounting Tool: The wheel mounting tool isn't part of the standard tool kit - although the tool kit's there, I don't think Porsche expect many 991 owners to remove their own wheels these days.

It's certainly useful for bearing the weight of those large alloys and helps to prevent dinging them on the suspension or discs (which is a real concern for anyone who has expensive PCCBs).

The tool can be found at Design911, eBay etc for around £10-15
https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod7429/Wheel-Mounting-Tool-for-Porsche/

Fastener Quality: Having always thought very highly of Porsche QC, I was quite disappointed in the quality of some of the fasteners on my 991. In all probability it reflects two things 1) The change from an engineer led company to one where the accountants have a greater role and the performance/profit relationship has skewed from what it once was 2) The move in the electroplating industry away from hexavalent chromium based coatings, towards less toxic platings and more environmentally sustainable practices. Both have led to a reduction in the salt spray performance of exposed fasteners.

Whilst I have replaced some of the smaller rusty fasteners with OE, in other cases I've simply cleaned them thoroughly and re-finished them with an appropriate primer/paint (Hammerite etc) OR a coating of Waxoyl for suspension parts. Given the thought that has already gone into specifying the correct materials for the OE part, there seemed little point in me having to identify the right grade of steel etc, with the chance that an after-market replacement might be less satisfactory from a material performance perspective and the reality is that it's the protective coating that's failed, not the fastener.

I consider the exhaust bolts as a separate issue because unless I replace the headers with after-market ones (which would invalidate the warranty), they should be good for some years yet and when the exhaust does need replacing with OE or after-market, I'll just have to allow for the bolts to be removed and probably replaced with Ti studs and nuts.


Regarding the Zunsport grilles: As others have said, it would be worth talking to the dealer to see if they are inclined to turn a blind eye. Some will, some won't but most agree that the grilles are a good idea and the reality is they reduce the possibility of an expensive radiator replacement, which is actually better for the warranty underwriters.
 
Luddite said:
Having bought what I think is a 2012/ 2013 MY C4s, I have a few questions, no doubt many more to follow.. (-:
Also I have seen extensions being used to assist align wheels when re-fitting them, not finding them in the tool "kit" I wondered if they were Porsche O.E. or after-market parts, that I am best to purchase..?

I bought a couple of these, makes removing / re-fitting the heavy wheels less hassle:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361808859514?
 
Many thanks for taking the time to reply guys, and the suggestions provided, very much appreciated.

My C4s goes into Porsche on Wed for rectification of the paint blemish, at which time they have also offered to carry out a complimentary health check, which I suspect may highlight anything they think might cause issues re the 111 point check....? Fingers crossed.

DRZ911, a pen..! Thanks for the heads up, no doubt one with the Porsche logo ... and with a price to match..? (-:

Slayer, thanks for the suggestion and information.

Otto, shame about the 40k service price alteration. From the service book my C4S has been well serviced, either on time or mileage schedule as prescribed. Next on the list is a brake fluid change, due June next year.. Having spent many a year in, around and under my air cooled Porsches. as well as before that my old Brit sports cars, I am well acquainted with all sorts of corrosion and repairs, though my first air cooled, a sixties 912 educated me to the high quality of Porsche fixings, compared to that which I was well used to on my old Brit cars.

As for Porsche guarantees relative to corrosion of exhaust parts I guess I can understand their thinking, though having looked at my almost 9 year old C4S exhaust system, it seems that the system may well outlast the fixings, which will perhaps complicate any task where the exhaust or part thereof might require to be removed for any maintenance or repair works..? I guess there might be expectations of a variation in corrosion dependant on where one`s Porsche operates...if first registered owner resided in Atlantis, or California...? (-: My guess is that improved quality fixings might save time and effort, and they may be more pleasing on the eye to flat rabbits etc. etc.

I will try to attach a pic of part of my own exhaust. If you look at the condition of the flange compared to the fixings, it would seem to suggest that the fixings seem likely to fail before the flange...? That one of the fixings also appears to retain the exhaust to a mounting/support bracket which if the nut/bolt that if/when it might fail seems likely to create stress on other of the exhaust fixings..? Were I a mechanic doing a check on this car I would feel obliged to point this out, as to the cost of having this or any other corroded bolts replaced by Porsche, I leave it to you to imagine...?

Mark (aka 911Time) Fortunately I do not have the PCCB`s I doubt I would ever get them up to temperature to feel their advantage.. Great kit though. The extension pins could be handy to ease alignment, for an old geezer who likes to check his brakes and clean out the corners where crud loves to gather and provides oportunites for corrosion to take hold and spread out from.

I totally agree with your thinking on fastenings and the likely change in Porsche priorities which seemed to start around the beginning of the water cooled era. I did ramble on a bit in an earlier post that all my nuts bolts and screws used to come in bags with the Porsche logo on them and they were all plated, as time passed that all stopped and the fixings came from bins at the dealership, which made me think they perhaps were sourced from a local supplier as opposed to Porsche supplied..?

Your suggestion that plating`s likely health & safety issues may have caused a change in fixings works well for me. Pretty sure that 997`s usual exhaust fixings problem were at one time were catered for by a supply of Titanium fixings (?) made available to the forum.. I would rather not get involved in drilling and tapping steel studs out of an alloy head, though if my studs would come loose at this moment in time, I would happily have a go at replacing them one at a time in the hope of not disturbing things too much..However using any fixing that looks in any way different might just upset the extended warranty process and more so if an engine went bang..!! I guess replacing the fixings with OE would at least turn the corrosion clock back, though to have to do it on a semi regular basis seems a bit of a pain if they only last circa 3 years as reported elsewhere...?

When you mention Hammerite, I cringe, as that is a pet peeve, as actual Hammerite finish has dimples in it which creates thin areas of protection, if any, I have oft times seen corrosion starting in the dimples. Whereas Smoothrite as a finish seems preferable, all be it marketed under the brand name Hammerite... All of which seems to create potential for confusion...?

I remember a tip where after wire brushing and cleaning exposed threads they would be greased and a tight fitting plastic or rubber tube would be pushed over them and trimmed to size, though I never got round to that degree of protection. I guess a light coating of paint that can easily be wire brushed off is a reasonable attempt at making disassembly a simpler process, as opposed to struggling with seized and breaking fastenings which can add a degree of time, effort and frustration to a task..?

Of course Exhaust fixings will ever suffer most which is why I am attracted to the idea of improved material choices... There was a time when brass nuts on steel studs was the norm before Titanium and the likes were ever thought of as an expensive alternative..(-:

As for stainless fully agree with your thinking on the importance on grades of stainless relative to the task in hand, and of course the quality of manufacture depending where sourced as corroded "stainless" seems none to hard to find..!

Thanks again guys your input is very much appreciated....

Where is DeMort when you need him....Only poking at your ribs Iain, take car chum.
 

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