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360 from large dealership: caveat emptor

I've heard that about Ferraris. The factory are reluctant to make them difficult to clock. I wonder why :dont know:

MC
 
MisterCorn said:
I've heard that about Ferraris. The factory are reluctant to make them difficult to clock. I wonder why :dont know:

MC

Indeed. Its a bloody minefield. It's also expensive to have a proper PPI done on a Ferrari because you have to have the very expensive software to do it properly. It can even tell you how much clutch you have left. A lot of people don't know, But the gearbox records miles the car has done in each gear!
 
guyvert1 said:
It was like watching Brewer without Edd in some rick n morty parallel universe

:grin:


Hi Stichill, I would run an F-car the same as my 911s, so Indy for servicing every year (yes you need that stamp) and anything complex, but I'd do anything that bolted on and off myself, so brakes, suspension, cosmetic mods. Basically anything I can't ***** up. :grin:

Boba I didn't know you'd had a 964T. I had one in 2008 that I paid £18k for. I sold it in 2012 for £25k to buy my mates GT3 mk1 Clubsport for £34k. I could have had our other mates 360 Spyder for £38k.
That was bottom of the market for all these cars and it's easy to see how some may not have been pampered.
I could afford to run my 964T but only just. The £7k for a top end rebuild wasn't fun though and I wasn't exactly holidaying in the Maldives to start with. :grin:

PS. It's now 2.30am (been up since 7am after 4 hours sleep) and I'm still at hospital number 2. First hospital did an X-ray on my wife and said no breaks. That's great but that's all they could do. I had to take my wife to hospital number 2 at 10pm as there was a long wait for an ambulance. Luckily I'd gone back when I had as nobody rang me to say they were moving her.
I'm sitting in the car now after popping home again at 1am. They're doing a scan next. She's been here 4 hours waiting. One of the doctors wanted to just send my wife home and refer her to a physio.
She can't put any weight on her right leg without yelling and that's after Codeine, but they want her to go and do some exercises. :grin:
I'm sure she'll just have given the hip and socket a bash, so rest and painkillers are the order of the day. We've waited this long though so may as well check it.
She's been lucky either way. Landed on the lawn and not the path.

Anyway, I'll sign off how I always sign off on JayEmm threads....

JayEmm is a plonker! :grin:

( I'm half joking really. He's not my cup of tea but the more YouTubers the better. There's something for everyone then.)
 
Who ever heard of anyone ever paying over the odds for a sports car... REALLY..?

I did so very recently and shared my thinking on here, paying circa £12k over the value HPI put on my purchase at the time... OK so you may say HPI are behind the curve on market trends, whatever, but I suspect that is a whole different discussion..?

Point being that evaluation of worth seems bound to be a very personal calculation which may be open to a variety of influences and not just market trends. A few years back I thought to return to Porsche ownership and buy an air cooled for circa £25k, until I beamed up the adverts and was given a rude awakening. It took quite some time for me to accept that the market value of Porsches was far in excess of my former expectations when I applied MY thinking on the effect of the economy in general, and adding the Covid effect on the likely market value.... I got all of that entirely wrong.

I ended up paying not only what I thought was OTT, but it seems HPI also agreed..?

With man maths very much in evidence and knowing time was not on my side, when a close to perfect spec Porsche appeared in an add... I was IN from the outset, though far from being the 20 something newly married, mortgaged to the hilt and wearing rose tinted glasses whose lenses were entirely fogged up with over excitement at seeing a totally beautiful Lotus Elan sitting under a local showroom lights...."Stretched budget" on steroids, Otto. That was the first time I was IN regardless of any defects I might find and which were staring me straight in the eye from first glance. None of that shrewd negotiating nonsense, as a youngster I had next to zero skills in that area. So yeah I bought an old lady of the night who had "danced" with many a moron as evidenced by the roll over bar and the many many hours I spent repairing as much as I possibly could, and for as long as I could, suffering numerous breakdowns....I was besotted, I was forever making excuses for it`s bad behaviour, until it really did just become too much, and overwhelmed my resources of just about everything I had available... I ended up in an Austin Maxi...for my sins..!!!

It seems those here who watched the recently posted SCD vid with the 360 up against the 996 GT3 and the Beemer, and may have been somewhat captivated by not only the aural but visceral assault on our imagination that the Ferrari induced, so much so that like a junkie we went of in search of more on t`internet..? (-:

Which takes us to the automotive junkie bro in OZ.... It seems he may never have bought entirely the wrong sports car in his yoof, as did I, but waited till later in life to make entirely the wrong decision on finding himself enchanted by wonderfully shapely red coloured beauty accompanied by the sweet song of the siren`s tail pipes and induction system....He had to have it and his own very personal calculations were probably that it could or would work well for him and his channel.. Shrug.

Being on the wrong side of 70 There was I in a similar and familiar situation again in regard to my 991 purchase.. I wanted it, though hopefully this time round a tad older and wiser thus set up a system of due diligence given not only the amount of cash involved, but that it would be a purchase at distance, paid for before ever seeing the Porsche in the metal... ! If you wish more detail of my distance sale arrangements for the acquisition of my 991, they are available elsewhere on this forum.

It seems that in such cases salesmen can have the upper hand after all it is their "profession," I would expect that they know at the time of taking a "special" car into stock that it will indeed tempt a sucker through the saleroom door..? The vehicle in question might be in average to immaculate condition, and thus no real risk for a main dealership to take it on and be confident at selling it a tad over market to enhance their profits. Then there are the smaller businesses who may well know an old tart when they see it and buy it in knowing that it will definitely attract a sucker through the door, the business being well versed in the use of carefully worded adverts, and the ability to skirt the law in it`s many and varied forms, just as I suspect the oldest profession has done since the dawn of time...?

Call us petrol heads, automotive junkies or whatever, given the market price of Porsches, it seems there are more than enough of us around to keep the merry go round spinning.... Meantime..?

As for the OZ bod now minus the Ferrari, at least he has a degree of exposure to an assault on his senses that demand his full attention while roaring down the road attracting very positive interaction with the populace, as opposed to envy that the Fezza generated, all in the shape of his Austin Healy Sprite, which seems likely to feel like he is braking the sound barrier while still progressing at legal road speeds and all at perhaps pocket money costs compared to the red wallet rapist..

If you want to get out of the comfort zone of modern sports car engineering advantage, and not spend the amount required to turn a Porsche into a real animal as per the other recently posted vid. "GT3 public road rumble" in the GT, R & RS video thread, then having an old pre digital sports car under a tarpaulin, in a lock-up or corner or the garage, might be quite enough to blow the cobwebs away if and when the mood arises... ? (-:

Marky really sorry to read of your good lady`s accident, I suspect we never feel more than useless and vulnerable than when we find ourselves in such situations relative to loved ones, I do hope she is pain free a.s.a.p. and heading rapidly back to good health.
 

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Luddite said:
Who ever heard of anyone ever paying over the odds for a sports car... REALLY..?

I did so very recently and shared my thinking on here, paying circa £12k over the value HPI put on my purchase at the time... OK so you may say HPI are behind the curve on market trends, whatever, but I suspect that is a whole different discussion..?

Point being that evaluation of worth seems bound to be a very personal calculation which may be open to a variety of influences and not just market trends. A few years back I thought to return to Porsche ownership and buy an air cooled for circa £25k, until I beamed up the adverts and was given a rude awakening. It took quite some time for me to accept that the market value of Porsches was far in excess of my former expectations when I applied MY thinking on the effect of the economy in general, and adding the Covid effect on the likely market value.... I got all of that entirely wrong.

I ended up paying not only what I thought was OTT, but it seems HPI also agreed..?

With man maths very much in evidence and knowing time was not on my side, when a close to perfect spec Porsche appeared in an add... I was IN from the outset, though far from being the 20 something newly married, mortgaged to the hilt and wearing rose tinted glasses whose lenses were entirely fogged up with over excitement at seeing a totally beautiful Lotus Elan sitting under a local showroom lights...."Stretched budget" on steroids, Otto. That was the first time I was IN regardless of any defects I might find and which were staring me straight in the eye from first glance. None of that shrewd negotiating nonsense, as a youngster I had next to zero skills in that area. So yeah I bought an old lady of the night who had "danced" with many a moron as evidenced by the roll over bar and the many many hours I spent repairing as much as I possibly could, and for as long as I could, suffering numerous breakdowns....I was besotted, I was forever making excuses for it`s bad behaviour, until it really did just become too much, and overwhelmed my resources of just about everything I had available... I ended up in an Austin Maxi...for my sins..!!!

It seems those here who watched the recently posted SCD vid with the 360 up against the 996 GT3 and the Beemer, and may have been somewhat captivated by not only the aural but visceral assault on our imagination that the Ferrari induced, so much so that like a junkie we went of in search of more on t`internet..? (-:

Which takes us to the automotive junkie bro in OZ.... It seems he may never have bought entirely the wrong sports car in his yoof, as did I, but waited till later in life to make entirely the wrong decision on finding himself enchanted by wonderfully shapely red coloured beauty accompanied by the sweet song of the siren`s tail pipes and induction system....He had to have it and his own very personal calculations were probably that it could or would work well for him and his channel.. Shrug.

Being on the wrong side of 70 There was I in a similar and familiar situation again in regard to my 991 purchase.. I wanted it, though hopefully this time round a tad older and wiser thus set up a system of due diligence given not only the amount of cash involved, but that it would be a purchase at distance, paid for before ever seeing the Porsche in the metal... ! If you wish more detail of my distance sale arrangements for the acquisition of my 991, they are available elsewhere on this forum.

It seems that in such cases salesmen can have the upper hand after all it is their "profession," I would expect that they know at the time of taking a "special" car into stock that it will indeed tempt a sucker through the saleroom door..? The vehicle in question might be in average to immaculate condition, and thus no real risk for a main dealership to take it on and be confident at selling it a tad over market to enhance their profits. Then there are the smaller businesses who may well know an old tart when they see it and buy it in knowing that it will definitely attract a sucker through the door, the business being well versed in the use of carefully worded adverts, and the ability to skirt the law in it`s many and varied forms, just as I suspect the oldest profession has done since the dawn of time...?

Call us petrol heads, automotive junkies or whatever, given the market price of Porsches, it seems there are more than enough of us around to keep the merry go round spinning.... Meantime..?

As for the OZ bod now minus the Ferrari, at least he has a degree of exposure to an assault on his senses that demand his full attention while roaring down the road attracting very positive interaction with the populace, as opposed to envy that the Fezza generated, all in the shape of his Austin Healy Sprite, which seems likely to feel like he is braking the sound barrier while still progressing at legal road speeds and all at perhaps pocket money costs compared to the red wallet rapist..

If you want to get out of the comfort zone of modern sports car engineering advantage, and not spend the amount required to turn a Porsche into a real animal as per the other recently posted vid. "GT3 public road rumble" in the GT, R & RS video thread, then having an old pre digital sports car under a tarpaulin, in a lock-up or corner or the garage, might be quite enough to blow the cobwebs away if and when the mood arises... ? (-:

I'm sorry but what is your point? get an old banger? :thumb:
 
Marky911 said:
Exactly Boba!

Busy watching it. 'Trade sale".
Russian roulette and you're on your own.

He's reading the list out as I type. Corroded discs and brake light not working. I wouldn't bother taking JayEmm to look at a car with me. If you can't spot worn discs through the wheels and check the lights you should stay away from car buying. Especially buying cars as a 'trade sale". :dont know:

Honestly....

exactly my thoughts. He's a car reviewer/road tester and he can't feel that what sounds like half the ball joins are knackered?
 
Given JayEmm's experience with the 430 Scuderia, I'd probably take Ratarossa along ahead of James.
 
As others have said, be very careful who we get to join us looking at potential purchases.

I cannot get the idea out of my head that maybe J is persuading his 'mate" based on what will look good on a moaning content on his channel. After all, isn't this the same mate that he helped that had the issues after purchasing McLaren that didn't go well ? J did flash an image of some cars in the 360 content to be clever but I didn't bother going back through to see what they were.
 
Boba fett said:
I'm sorry but what is your point? get an old banger? :thumb:

I tried that but you just end up with stiletto heel marks in the headlining :what:

It's no surprise to me that when a trader puts a car in for an MOT prior to sale it will have a clean bill of health. :roll:

JM provided some cryptic message who the trader was and I think when I was looking I saw that 360 for sale wearing that VRM :?:
 
It wasn't that cryptic. There are two with a similar name. I presume it's not the International one.
 
I suspect the majority of the sports cars I bought over many years were old bangers in some respects, the newest Porsche I have bought was 8 years old at the time of purchase.

I used to buy my sports cars with faults in the knowledge that I could repair them myself. All that altered when emission regs combined with digital technology, and in the process introduced all sorts of issues that on occasion seemed to provide the main dealerships with problems, even with their access up to date interrogation software, spare sensors and actuators to hand to swap in and out as part of the fault finding process.

Sure on any modern car you can grab the top of a wheel and shake the whole car using the weight of the car to highlight possible suspension joint or wheel bearing issues, or grab the front and back of a wheel push and pulling on each side alternately while listening/feeling for steering joint issues. Simple stuff, as is a smokey exhaust, or low oil pressure when HOT..?

In the case of a Porsche, IMS or bore score in the making might not be too obvious..with perhaps a £10-15k bill in the offing Hmm..? Then by the time you get to Ferrari and the likely degree of rose tinting on the glasses, no way I would get into that game without a recognised Ferrari expert dealership having checked it over fully, unless of course I was spending the sort of cash that was of no real consequence to ME

Depending upon an MOT as a judgement of condition on a high end vehicle seems less than wise. :?:
 
Marky911 said:
Ooh I'll watch that later!
Mrs Marky fell from a height off a ladder at lunchtime. I've just popped home for a cuppa and an overnight bag as her hip isn't looking good.

I've been watching YouTube in the car all afternoon as they don't want relatives waiting in the hospital.
I thought the video would be this one below but I think yours will be even better/worse.

This guy had a ppi done and they spotted nothing. Or rather turned a blind eye to it. Stung him bad. He's no longer a Ferrari fan. :nooo: :grin:




I don't rate JayEmm but I watched the first 30 seconds and it sounds like a good one.



Crikey mate I am sorry to hear amor Mrs Marky911 wish her all the best
I know quite a lot about falling for heights myself
Look after that girl kiddo

There are a lot of very blind people about, some issues are plain to see and some you can feel on a drive and some plain obvious, I bet it is tatty generally
I do know a lot of very very good well known indie supercar dealers that turn away 360s and 430s due to being on the face of it ropey

Guarantee there are not that many good cars around, people buy them that cant afford um
Figures suggest there are around 2500 360s and 430s in the uk
 
Cheers Toby. :thumb:
She's keep pumping those painkillers in and is ok. Has to rest for 72 hours before starting to build things up with the physio exercises. We are confident she'll be up and about soon.
She'll have to be. She's starting a new job in a fortnight after finally managing to get out of her teaching career.

Back on topic. Yes there must be loads of cars out there that simply wouldn't make sense to a dealer to take in, given the prices to bring one back up to spec.
I am dubious about how the 430 I'm looking at has been maintained if Ferrari Newcastle are pumping £20k (at 50% rates) into it. I'm still weighing up the F1 box too.

So are we saying the dealer was Romans then but there's a one that isn't Romans International? I'd only heard of one.

(ETA - Just had a look and yep I see there are two.)
 
Boba fett said:
OttoOtto said:
I'm not a JM 'fan' it was a random YT vid I came across. But the MOT aspect worried me more than the apparent laissez-faire attitude of the buyer (and the seller for that matter).

You will be surprised how much of it still goes on.

I saw so many Ferrari's with so called 'teen" mileage, but everything else pointed to a car that had done many more miles!

Trust no C you next Tuesday :thumb:

The F1 ECU can be interrogated easily at an indie or dealer to access the exact milage, each gear records how many miles it has done.
Cant do that in a manual
Im have seen videos on you tube with the speedo saying 0
 
Sorry Boba I just noticed you said all that I had said already :mrgreen:
 

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