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350 bhp

jackal2513

Baku
Joined
21 Jan 2009
Messages
4,520
Errr, 350 horses ? Whats it got in it, a Ferrari V8 ?

Pretty much impossible i would have thought ?

http://www.specialistcarsltd.co.uk/vehicle/porsche-993/porsche-993-carrera-2-9m

Porsche 993 Carrera 2 - Iris Blue, 350 BHP 9M (1996) PRICE = POA

Ninemeister have looked after the car since 2004, the work they have done to the car has included the following high end modifications:

Ninemeister solid billet aluminium heads +
Ninemeister 102mm cylinders & pistons (3.8l)
Ninemeister sports cams
100 cell cats
Lightweight flywheel & clutch
AST coilover suspension
Solid engine mounts
GT2 rear subframe

This work has seen over £25,000 spent on the car and we have dyno plots to show the car is now outputting a very healthy 350+ BHP, a big improvement on the standard 285 BHP this varioram car would have produced from the factory.

993%20Carrera%202%20Iris%20Blue_3.jpg
 
Is the price a secret? :?:

Seems an optimistic estimate of the cars output. Even so with that spec I'm sure it gets down the road well :eek:
 
Hi Jackal. I noticed a post on another forum that a group of cars went to Ninemeister for a dynoday and standard, unchipped variorams were getting around 310 Bhp on the Ninemeister machine.

So maybe a modified car would be getting towards 350 Bhp on the same machine?
 
I'm at ninemeister for a remap next Friday so we shall see.
 
Singer claim 360bhp from their Cosworth built engine.
 
My car got 310(.1)hp on the 9m dyno, but that's post remap and with a 200 cell cat. I can't see how you'd get such an increase with stock intake/exhaust? I'd have thought it wouldn't really be worth the remap :dont know:

If a standard 3.6 VR produces 285 stock and with 200 cell cats produces ~310hp, that's an 8.7% increase.

So would a 'stock' RS 3.8 motor producing 300hp also have a similar increase if you fitted 200 cell cats and had a remap - 300+8.7%=326hp?

In which case even with fancy pistons, head and other 9m trickery that's quite a gain from the NA 3.8 advertised.
 
would a sportscat give 15bhp !!?? I doubt it, maybe 3-4 bhp ? :dont know:


For me, Dynos are a before and after comparison only. Actual objective figures are meaningless other than for a comparison before the car was tuned preferably during identical weather/temperature conditions.

That said, if I did want to get an approximate power figure then the only dynos I would enetrtain would be dave Andrews's and Steve Greenalds. Both of these are widely accepted as being about the most accurate in the country. Back in the elise/caterham days i've seen people pull up to dave Andrews only to leave weeping when they realised that their car was 20 or 30bhp under what they thought it was by way of some other rolling road.

Still only a bit of fun though, if you want to really know, get the damm thing out the car and on the bench.
 
Hi Jackal,

A 3.8 with Motec M84 and ITB's will definitely push out 350bhp no problem on air/oil-cooled Porsche engines.

Check out some of the recent builds from Ninemeister and Redtek Engineering on other threads. It is also possible to build a higher revving 4 litre race engine with 400bhp.

My own 964 is nearing the end of a 3.8 litre 350bhp build by esteemed Porsche engine builder Nick Fulljames (ex McLaren F1) and expect it will do what he says as it's not the first he's built by any means and he's notoriously conservative.

There is a difference between bhp figures quoted at the flywheel and those at the rear wheels or drive. You can expect to lose around 30 - 40bhp in transmission on a two wheel drive and around 90bhp on a 4 wheel drive.

However you are correct to compare bhp figures exactly, for like for like you would need to approach it scientifically under similar conditions.

Cheers,
Paul
 
When folk quote output, do they usually quote at the flywheel or the wheels?

If the latter, then this must be a very rough estimate, he thinks... :?:

Without knowing anything about them really, I reckon dynos must be most useful for before and after comparative testing to see if work done has had any impact, or for comparing the relative output of cars.

It strikes me they can't be a good source of 'absolutes', unless measured at the wheel...

tim
 
paul284pt said:
Hi Jackal,

A 3.8 with Motec M84 and ITB's will definitely push out 350bhp no problem on air/oil-cooled Porsche engines.

Check out some of the recent builds from Ninemeister and Redtek Engineering on other threads. It is also possible to build a higher revving 4 litre race engine with 400bhp.

My own 964 is nearing the end of a 3.8 litre 350bhp build by esteemed Porsche engine builder Nick Fulljames (ex McLaren F1) and expect it will do what he says as it's not the first he's built by any means and he's notoriously conservative.

There is a difference between bhp figures quoted at the flywheel and those at the rear wheels or drive. You can expect to lose around 30 - 40bhp in transmission on a two wheel drive and around 90bhp on a 4 wheel drive.

However you are correct to compare bhp figures exactly, for like for like you would need to approach it scientifically under similar conditions.

Cheers,
Paul


Hi Paul

do yuo have any plots for these engines from a proper engine dynamometer ?
 
Hi Jackal,

I'm sorry I don't yet, but I will have one for mine after the build soon, which I will be happy to shares.

If you check out Frank's Black Betty build he has the same engine spec as me although his is a C4 and I know he has the figures.

You can check out the full spec of my build on 964 thread "Plan B". This is a full balanced and blue-printed 3.8 build including M84, RS pistons, RSR cams, PMO ITB's etc. Any questions call Nick Fulljames of Redtek Engineering.

Both Nick Fulljames and Colin Belton are two of the most respected engineers in the Porsche world. Colin built the first of the Singer engines and gave them a lot of guidance. I've been reliably informed that Singer only changed to Cosworth because 9M couldn't build enough or economically enough from this side of the pond which shipping and import taxes were added up.

Cheers,
Paul
 
Don't assume remaps are all about BHP increases ;-)

I've had BMW NA ///M engines remapped. They are so highly tuned stock ( my S54 pushes out c350BHP from 3.2 litres NA) that you don't really get any BHP increase from a remap. It's all about throttle mapping, driveability and even improved MPG as you can get away from a map designed to suit none driver focused criteria.

How the car drives is what I'm Interested in not what a graph shows me. I've seen plenty of dynos manipulated simply by adjusting ambient temp readings ie you can even cheat before and after on the same dyno.

I'm having the remap carried out by chipwizard who I believe is highly regarded and strasse use him to remap track cars, RS's etc. he simply rents ninemeisters dyno for the process.
 

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