Suspension rebuild/upgrade incoming. Meyle & CTE feedbac

Slippydiff · 15 Jun 2023

I'm about to embark on a major suspension overhaul and upgrade in the coming weeks.

I've already purchased a pair of Eibach adjustable front coffin arms, and will be replacing the front ARB droplinks with TRW items, the inner rack ends with TRW items, the outer steering rack tie rods with TRW items and the tuning forks with OE parts.

I have the option of OE or Meyle front and rear top mounts.
The OE parts are considerably more expensive, but I've heard reports that their coffin arms feature softer rubber bushing than the OE items and their stuff can be subject to failure often within 18 months of fitment (source Lee 9 WERKS suspension overhaul of his 996 Little Irish) though I believe Meyle offer a two year warranty ??

This on the face of it is all well and good, but if I have to strip the front suspension down to replace prematurely failed parts in 12 months time, and then possibly have to do a geo afterwards, it negates the increased cost of fitting OE parts in the first place.

Has anyone used the Meyle C2 top mounts ? Any feedback on their reliability would be appreciated.

On the the rear suspension I plan to use OE tuning forks, OE coffin arms, OE toe control arms (or some aftermarket adjustable Cup type items) and I'm considering using the CTE upper control arms (2 per side)

Does anyone have experience of using the CTE items ? And if so, have you had any problems with them, how long ago time/mileage did you fit them ?

gizlaroc · 15 Jun 2023

I'm not a Meyle fan at all, on Porsche or BMW they tend to wear quickly.

For me it is TRW or Lemforder.

I just bought a pair of Lemforder from an eBay seller for £34 each, and £5 off for buying 2, so £64 delivered.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394452035860

I bought them as spares because of the price.

I changed the control arms on the rear of mine today and used CTE rather than Meyle, the Meyle ones I put on in 2021, less than 5k miles ago, were already shot on the ball joint, the main bush was OK, but the ball joint was done.

CTE have a bigger ball joint, and also weigh around 500g less than the Meyle. When I was doing my last car, Centre Gravity recommended CTE.

But for me Lemforder is a fit and forget product, and that is definitely worth the extra as I don't want to be doing things twice.

rival38 · 16 Jun 2023

My car had new Meyle cintrol arms and new top mounts (not sure which brand) last November. All was good until last week when the creaking from low speed steering input came back badly.

So back to the garage next week for an inspection & diagnosis. Hopefuly I will still be able to take it to Scotland next friday - without risk of a dangerous failure or inflicting damage on something else.

The car is on stock Ohlins R & T (fitted in 2018 at CG) - perhaps it is time to go back to them for a spring rate reduction & 'whatever else she needs'.

photek · 16 Jun 2023

rival38 said:
My car had new Meyle cintrol arms and new top mounts (not sure which brand) last November. All was good until last week when the creaking from low speed steering input came back badly.

So back to the garage next week for an inspection & diagnosis. Hopefuly I will still be able to take it to Scotland next friday - without risk of a dangerous failure or inflicting damage on something else.

The car is on stock Ohlins R & T (fitted in 2018 at CG) - perhaps it is time to go back to them for a spring rate reduction & 'whatever else she needs'.

Tuning forks, ARB bushes, drop links?

While you're in there - maybe get the inner and outer track rods done, unless you know they were done recently.

Slippydiff · 16 Jun 2023

gizlaroc said:
I'm not a Meyle fan at all, on Porsche or BMW they tend to wear quickly.

For me it is TRW or Lemforder.

I just bought a pair of Lemforder from an eBay seller for £34 each, and £5 off for buying 2, so £64 delivered.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394452035860

I bought them as spares because of the price.

I changed the control arms on the rear of mine today and used CTE rather than Meyle, the Meyle ones I put on in 2021, less than 5k miles ago, were already shot on the ball joint, the main bush was OK, but the ball joint was done.

CTE have a bigger ball joint, and also weigh around 500g less than the Meyle. When I was doing my last car, Centre Gravity recommended CTE.

But for me Lemforder is a fit and forget product, and that is definitely worth the extra as I don't want to be doing things twice.

Excellent info, and much appreciated.

I've messaged that Ebay vendor to see when he expects to have more stock.

drmark · 16 Jun 2023

Had my 997 suspension fully refreshed by CoG and they recommended and fitted.

OEM top mounts. CTE front diagonal arms and Meyle rears.

The CTE front arms lasted 10k before knocking when warm.

Slippydiff · 16 Jun 2023

gizlaroc said:
I'm not a Meyle fan at all, on Porsche or BMW they tend to wear quickly.

For me it is TRW or Lemforder.

I just bought a pair of Lemforder from an eBay seller for £34 each, and £5 off for buying 2, so £64 delivered.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394452035860

I bought them as spares because of the price.

I changed the control arms on the rear of mine today and used CTE rather than Meyle, the Meyle ones I put on in 2021, less than 5k miles ago, were already shot on the ball joint, the main bush was OK, but the ball joint was done.

CTE have a bigger ball joint, and also weigh around 500g less than the Meyle. When I was doing my last car, Centre Gravity recommended CTE.

But for me Lemforder is a fit and forget product, and that is definitely worth the extra as I don't want to be doing things twice.

Can I ask where you got your CTE coffin arms from ?

Slippydiff · 16 Jun 2023

drmark said:
Had my 997 suspension fully refreshed by CoG and they recommended and fitted.

OEM top mounts. CTE front diagonal arms and Meyle rears.

The CTE front arms lasted 10k before knocking when warm.

That's no good, OE/Lemforder sound like the only sensible options.

gizlaroc · 16 Jun 2023

I bought them from Eurocarparts.

I had a trade account with them, used to get around 20% off their current best price online, but my account was closed recently.
The garage was at my father in laws place, but he died in 2021, last year we sold the property and I didn't change the address.

So annoyingly I paid £103 yesterday.

Which is about £20 more than others have had them.

But I only needed one as I had one with 1000 miles on it and I was halfway through the job and I could collect it there and then.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the CTE arm was also a few mm longer, or the measurement from the centre of the subframe bush to the centre of the ball joint is slightly more, something like that.
Which allows you to get a smidge more negative camber than the Meyle arms.

I tried to find that info again the other day, as I'm sure it was Centre Gravity the poster said had told them that too.

But again, who knows when people are saying things online, it might have been someone not understanding what they were saying and it become gospel. :mrgreen:

They may have been getting confused with the diagonal arms of course.

The problem is, it only takes one bad knock, parking on a slope every day, to put strain on these bushes and weaken them.

My car has been on front jack stands for over 4 weeks.
When I got it off on Sunday the rear control arm bush was squeaking. It has probably been stressed to buggery for over a month and caused the noise? Who knows?

The arms from 2001-2005 are always more expensive. I wonder if they realised they needed to toughen them up by then?
I would like to compare them side by side.

Slippydiff · 16 Jun 2023

gizlaroc said:
I bought them from Eurocarparts.

I had a trade account with them, used to get around 20% off their current best price online, but my account was closed recently.
The garage was at my father in laws place, but he died in 2021, last year we sold the property and I didn't change the address.

So annoyingly I paid £103 yesterday.

Which is about £20 more than others have had them.

But I only needed one as I had one with 1000 miles on it and I was halfway through the job and I could collect it there and then.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the CTE arm was also a few mm longer, or the measurement from the centre of the subframe bush to the centre of the ball joint is slightly more, something like that.
Which allows you to get a smidge more negative camber than the Meyle arms.

I tried to find that info again the other day, as I'm sure it was Centre Gravity the poster said had told them that too.

But again, who knows when people are saying things online, it might have been someone not understanding what they were saying and it become gospel. :mrgreen:

They may have been getting confused with the diagonal arms of course.

The problem is, it only takes one bad knock, parking on a slope every day, to put strain on these bushes and weaken them.

My car has been on front jack stands for over 4 weeks.
When I got it off on Sunday the rear control arm bush was squeaking. It has probably been stressed to buggery for over a month and caused the noise? Who knows?

The arms from 2001-2005 are always more expensive. I wonder if they realised they needed to toughen them up by then?
I would like to compare them side by side.

According to Rennlist, you can use the 991.1 items ... :

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1336154-991-control-arms.html

I can get OE for £150 and they should last another 50k miles, I think I'd rather pay the extra and fit/forget them :?:

drmark · 16 Jun 2023

OEM arms are crap too. Sadly. My first set lasted 20k.

Slippydiff · 16 Jun 2023

drmark said:
OEM arms are crap too. Sadly. My first set lasted 20k.

You're a real ray of sunshine aren't you Mark :grin:

Lets hope the Eibach adjustable items I've bought for the front, last longer than all the aftermarket stuff and the OE items

But all joking aside, does your 997 get used on very poorly surfaced roads a lot of the time ? Or dare I ask, is Mrs Dr Mark less diligent about avoiding potholes than you :?:

gizlaroc · 16 Jun 2023

I love this bit from googone20 on that Rennlist thread...

Since I bought everything from FCP, I will never have to worry about paying for replacing the same parts again. Full lifetime warranty on everything.

Oh to have a warranty like that over here!

Interesting thread though.

I do remember seeing a post about using 991 arms on 996s and 997s when I last did my arms. Completely forgot about it though.
"‹"‹"‹"‹"‹"‹"‹

diceman · 16 Jun 2023

Slippydiff said:
gizlaroc said:

I bought them from Eurocarparts.

I had a trade account with them, used to get around 20% off their current best price online, but my account was closed recently.
The garage was at my father in laws place, but he died in 2021, last year we sold the property and I didn't change the address.

So annoyingly I paid £103 yesterday.

Which is about £20 more than others have had them.

But I only needed one as I had one with 1000 miles on it and I was halfway through the job and I could collect it there and then.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the CTE arm was also a few mm longer, or the measurement from the centre of the subframe bush to the centre of the ball joint is slightly more, something like that.
Which allows you to get a smidge more negative camber than the Meyle arms.

I tried to find that info again the other day, as I'm sure it was Centre Gravity the poster said had told them that too.

But again, who knows when people are saying things online, it might have been someone not understanding what they were saying and it become gospel. :mrgreen:

They may have been getting confused with the diagonal arms of course.

The problem is, it only takes one bad knock, parking on a slope every day, to put strain on these bushes and weaken them.

My car has been on front jack stands for over 4 weeks.
When I got it off on Sunday the rear control arm bush was squeaking. It has probably been stressed to buggery for over a month and caused the noise? Who knows?

The arms from 2001-2005 are always more expensive. I wonder if they realised they needed to toughen them up by then?
I would like to compare them side by side.

Click to expand...

According to Rennlist, you can use the 991.1 items ... :

https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/1336154-991-control-arms.html

I can get OE for £150 and they should last another 50k miles, I think I'd rather pay the extra and fit/forget them :?:

Where was the source of this info?

When I was ordering up coffin arms recently a lot of sites were saying that they offered the same part for a 991 as my 997. A search suggested that the 997 arms are 310mm and the 991 305mm. By that info it suggests you'd be running positive camber with the shorter 991 arms?

Compare: -
part no TRW JTC1194 for 997 at 310mm

part no TRW JTC1619 for 991 at 305mm

Slippydiff · 16 Jun 2023

It's not as straightforward as it appears apparently.
The standard 991's run a different LCA compared to the PASM/M030 cars, one of them requires you to use the 997 diagonal arm/tuning fork AND requires some grinding of the rear crossmember to enable the 991 arms to fit.
For all that aggro I'd rather have the billet Eibach adjustable arms I've got, and which are designed to accept solid caster pucks (or heavy duty items) and whatever standard size uprated inner bush or spherical bearing.