Paintshield
Monza
- Joined
- 30 Nov 2004
- Messages
- 163
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HI GuysHi I had a couple of calls today from guys off the Board, one was Stuart BB (can't remember the other handle sorry) about Paint protection film in general, they thought you might find a few pointers about the process and its benefits and limitations helpful when making your decisions about whether to do this or not on your motor. I have posted this on a couple of boards around the UK car scene following requests from potential customers to be better informed about this sort of stuff.This is not about which manufacturer to use (although we would be happy to have you) its more about the questions you need to ask and issues you need to be aware of.First: Film straight off there are about a dozen films available world wide. They break down into two categories those with a topcoat and those without. There are currently only two manufacturers that actively have a topcoat 3M and Bekaert (clearshield) a third is developing one (avery) The 3M film is the one that has been in existence the longest (although this is occassionally disputed). The film that protects your car is a layer of flexible material with lots of micro pores in it this allows the film to flex and absorb the kinetic energy of the impact. The downside to this is that these pores will absorb and retain road grime, tar/rubber residue etc. This is a major problem in the UK as the film will go dark grey (or even black) after about 3 months. The topcoat prevents this and means there is no special maintainence needed. We recommend topcoated films which is why we use 3M product ( as do Armourfend).Second: your paint finish, none of the films should harm the manufacturers paint in anyway (emphasis on manufacturer) and are usually warranted as such HOWEVER aftermarket resprays can be affected by the chemical used to fit the product (isopropyl alcohol). Or can cause a poor respray to lift when the film is removed. A good and correctly trained installer, should be able to advise you on the steps needed to ensure this does not happen. Our training pieces at our facility are resprays and we have trainees pulling film off them dozens of times every weekend and it takes many months before any lifting occurs (equivalent to about 4000 years of life some nut in the office calculated). This is why most warranties (including ours) exclude aftermarket paints as we have no control over the quality of the job.Chemical interaction shows itself as a rippling or flow marks in the paint this only happens with a particular type of product (we tested for months to find which ones) and it is mainly the clearcoat used most typically by some large smart repair companies that cause this. Large bodyshops normally use a different process that is unaffected by fitting the film.Third Fitting Issues, there are several things that can go wrong in fitting, due to cold, wax on the car, poorly trained fitters etc So i will list these and their causes for you.Fingers: these are little rises at the edges of the film where the film has lost contact with the car the causes can be failure to de-wax the car correctly, fittting after a coating product, incorrect chemical mix, temperature, even just sloppy fitting, this is an unnacceptable defect and you should always reject the job.Lifting this is where an edge of the film begins to peel back a few months after fitting, this can be caused either by poor fitting, wax on the car when installing, failure to finish the job off or washing the car within the first week. If you have washed the car too soon and this has caused it it is easy to identify. Otherwise the job should be rejected and the film replaced. Lifting can be caused by vanadlism during the first couple of weeks, however this leaves fingerprints under the film so again is easy to address (this is very rare and we have only had one case in the last year).Marks on the film: There are several causes for this first straight tramelines are a film defect and are easily spotted, small scratches on the surface (usually slightly curved) tend to be squeegee marks due to dirt (or hardwater particles) a small number of these would not be cause for a rejection of the job, however lots of them will affect the clarity of the film and may be cause for rejection these are avoided by keeping the squeegee wet. These can usually be removed by gentle use of Meguiars Scratch X. Scarring, these are caused by the squeegee, there will sometimes be one or two of these on jobs they will only be visible from a couple of inches and should not be cause for rejection however if there are lots of them or they are visible from a couple of feet away, again I would reject the job Water Bubbles: The film process is like window tinting and moisture under the film can take up to a month (depending on humidity)This will show itself as water bubbles or on black cars as a rash of white spots these will dissapear, if a water bubble is still there after a month or so the installer should replace the film or where practicable undertake remedial work with a syringe.Stretch marks: These show up as vertical rows of miniscule white dots or as feather edges they can appear up to two weeks later, this is due to over stretching the film or working at very low temperatures or on a cold car this is typically seen when some one insists on a home fitting in the winter. Or due to poor install either way the job should be rejected as they will not go away.Yellowing: modern films should not yellow and should be warranted against this, however on a white car the film can look slightly creamy this is due to the adhesive (but as almost no-one has a white car now its almost a non-issue). The 3rd generation films From 3M have now pretty much eliminated this so it looks as good on a white car as any other now.Cutting on the car this tends to be done either due to a poorly fitting design custom design or poor fitting due to excessive stretching, under no circumstances should you accept this and if you discover it has been done you should sue the installer for damages as it will require a respray.Dissassembling the vehicle, some installers who work on bulk roll by hand, remove headlights and indicators and such, the ONLY parts that you should allow to be removed are tow hook doors washer jet doors and Number plates, this is due to the fact that otherwise an aperture has to be designed around them and you may not like the result. It is better where possible (can't always be done) to keep the film as visually continuous as possible. Removal of lighting arrays can (and probably will) invalidate your warranty)Fitting at home: some installers will fit at home (we prefer customers to go to installer premises) there is nothing inherently wrong with this, however you must accept the fact that there WILL be occassional minor defects that will occur when fitting in your garage. Most notably the occassional small speck of dust under the film, remember your garage is not a sterile environment so this is impossible to completley eradicate in a domestic situation. The trade off of course is the convenience factor and these specks would only be visible within 3-6 inches of the car.I would strongly suggest whoever you use, you check out the following: 1) See their training certificate from a company you trust 2) Make sure they have public liability Insurance and make sure the manufacturer has product liability Insurance (always helps to know where to direct your wrath if something goes badly wrong). Check out whether you get a warranty if so what kind.Kit Designs: this is important, owing to the difficulty to install and what defects may occur and how much you may have to pay. These, fall down into three main types: multi piece (usually aimed at the consumer/diy market) these break large areas up into many small pieces meaning the average person could attempt fitting. partial break designs, these are usually bumpers that are split in half or into three (maximum) pieces this is to make it easier for the installer to fit and will result in fewer minor surface defects they are a breeze to install but do result in more lines on the car. One piece designs these result in fewer lines and a much more aesthetically pleasing appearance they are however slightly more expensive to buy as the design process for these is much more complex and the installation is much more difficult to do these should ONLY be done by a proffessional and you should always ensure they have been trained before letting anyone start one of these on your car.Carbon Fibre: There are two types of Carbon Fibre around ; first and second generation.First Generation this results in water being trapped between the layers during manufacture consequently it gasses out for months (maybe years) you should not fit film under any circumstances to first Generation carbon, as it may cause the layers to delaminate due to pressure building up between the layers.Second generation: this is a dry process and 3M's view is that it should be fine. We have successfully fitted film to the Carrera GT which is largely carbon construction (second Gen), we do apply a caveat: that is, do not seal the reverse side of the carbon and monitor the film, if fresh bubbles begin to appear under the film after a month, remove the film IMMEDIATELY!I have a a carbon fibre bonnet on my weekend toy and as its first Gen we could not fit film and the stone chips have caused cracking in the lacquer A real pain when you are in my business). Phew! hope this helps you when deciding on Paint Protection film it really is the most cost effective purchase you will ever make for your car and whoever you use I hope you get what you expect, I am a great believer in an informed consumer market so armed with this information you should be able to ensure you get a great job done for your money.Best WishesTom Wakeford
Migration info. Legacy thread was 21106
HI GuysHi I had a couple of calls today from guys off the Board, one was Stuart BB (can't remember the other handle sorry) about Paint protection film in general, they thought you might find a few pointers about the process and its benefits and limitations helpful when making your decisions about whether to do this or not on your motor. I have posted this on a couple of boards around the UK car scene following requests from potential customers to be better informed about this sort of stuff.This is not about which manufacturer to use (although we would be happy to have you) its more about the questions you need to ask and issues you need to be aware of.First: Film straight off there are about a dozen films available world wide. They break down into two categories those with a topcoat and those without. There are currently only two manufacturers that actively have a topcoat 3M and Bekaert (clearshield) a third is developing one (avery) The 3M film is the one that has been in existence the longest (although this is occassionally disputed). The film that protects your car is a layer of flexible material with lots of micro pores in it this allows the film to flex and absorb the kinetic energy of the impact. The downside to this is that these pores will absorb and retain road grime, tar/rubber residue etc. This is a major problem in the UK as the film will go dark grey (or even black) after about 3 months. The topcoat prevents this and means there is no special maintainence needed. We recommend topcoated films which is why we use 3M product ( as do Armourfend).Second: your paint finish, none of the films should harm the manufacturers paint in anyway (emphasis on manufacturer) and are usually warranted as such HOWEVER aftermarket resprays can be affected by the chemical used to fit the product (isopropyl alcohol). Or can cause a poor respray to lift when the film is removed. A good and correctly trained installer, should be able to advise you on the steps needed to ensure this does not happen. Our training pieces at our facility are resprays and we have trainees pulling film off them dozens of times every weekend and it takes many months before any lifting occurs (equivalent to about 4000 years of life some nut in the office calculated). This is why most warranties (including ours) exclude aftermarket paints as we have no control over the quality of the job.Chemical interaction shows itself as a rippling or flow marks in the paint this only happens with a particular type of product (we tested for months to find which ones) and it is mainly the clearcoat used most typically by some large smart repair companies that cause this. Large bodyshops normally use a different process that is unaffected by fitting the film.Third Fitting Issues, there are several things that can go wrong in fitting, due to cold, wax on the car, poorly trained fitters etc So i will list these and their causes for you.Fingers: these are little rises at the edges of the film where the film has lost contact with the car the causes can be failure to de-wax the car correctly, fittting after a coating product, incorrect chemical mix, temperature, even just sloppy fitting, this is an unnacceptable defect and you should always reject the job.Lifting this is where an edge of the film begins to peel back a few months after fitting, this can be caused either by poor fitting, wax on the car when installing, failure to finish the job off or washing the car within the first week. If you have washed the car too soon and this has caused it it is easy to identify. Otherwise the job should be rejected and the film replaced. Lifting can be caused by vanadlism during the first couple of weeks, however this leaves fingerprints under the film so again is easy to address (this is very rare and we have only had one case in the last year).Marks on the film: There are several causes for this first straight tramelines are a film defect and are easily spotted, small scratches on the surface (usually slightly curved) tend to be squeegee marks due to dirt (or hardwater particles) a small number of these would not be cause for a rejection of the job, however lots of them will affect the clarity of the film and may be cause for rejection these are avoided by keeping the squeegee wet. These can usually be removed by gentle use of Meguiars Scratch X. Scarring, these are caused by the squeegee, there will sometimes be one or two of these on jobs they will only be visible from a couple of inches and should not be cause for rejection however if there are lots of them or they are visible from a couple of feet away, again I would reject the job Water Bubbles: The film process is like window tinting and moisture under the film can take up to a month (depending on humidity)This will show itself as water bubbles or on black cars as a rash of white spots these will dissapear, if a water bubble is still there after a month or so the installer should replace the film or where practicable undertake remedial work with a syringe.Stretch marks: These show up as vertical rows of miniscule white dots or as feather edges they can appear up to two weeks later, this is due to over stretching the film or working at very low temperatures or on a cold car this is typically seen when some one insists on a home fitting in the winter. Or due to poor install either way the job should be rejected as they will not go away.Yellowing: modern films should not yellow and should be warranted against this, however on a white car the film can look slightly creamy this is due to the adhesive (but as almost no-one has a white car now its almost a non-issue). The 3rd generation films From 3M have now pretty much eliminated this so it looks as good on a white car as any other now.Cutting on the car this tends to be done either due to a poorly fitting design custom design or poor fitting due to excessive stretching, under no circumstances should you accept this and if you discover it has been done you should sue the installer for damages as it will require a respray.Dissassembling the vehicle, some installers who work on bulk roll by hand, remove headlights and indicators and such, the ONLY parts that you should allow to be removed are tow hook doors washer jet doors and Number plates, this is due to the fact that otherwise an aperture has to be designed around them and you may not like the result. It is better where possible (can't always be done) to keep the film as visually continuous as possible. Removal of lighting arrays can (and probably will) invalidate your warranty)Fitting at home: some installers will fit at home (we prefer customers to go to installer premises) there is nothing inherently wrong with this, however you must accept the fact that there WILL be occassional minor defects that will occur when fitting in your garage. Most notably the occassional small speck of dust under the film, remember your garage is not a sterile environment so this is impossible to completley eradicate in a domestic situation. The trade off of course is the convenience factor and these specks would only be visible within 3-6 inches of the car.I would strongly suggest whoever you use, you check out the following: 1) See their training certificate from a company you trust 2) Make sure they have public liability Insurance and make sure the manufacturer has product liability Insurance (always helps to know where to direct your wrath if something goes badly wrong). Check out whether you get a warranty if so what kind.Kit Designs: this is important, owing to the difficulty to install and what defects may occur and how much you may have to pay. These, fall down into three main types: multi piece (usually aimed at the consumer/diy market) these break large areas up into many small pieces meaning the average person could attempt fitting. partial break designs, these are usually bumpers that are split in half or into three (maximum) pieces this is to make it easier for the installer to fit and will result in fewer minor surface defects they are a breeze to install but do result in more lines on the car. One piece designs these result in fewer lines and a much more aesthetically pleasing appearance they are however slightly more expensive to buy as the design process for these is much more complex and the installation is much more difficult to do these should ONLY be done by a proffessional and you should always ensure they have been trained before letting anyone start one of these on your car.Carbon Fibre: There are two types of Carbon Fibre around ; first and second generation.First Generation this results in water being trapped between the layers during manufacture consequently it gasses out for months (maybe years) you should not fit film under any circumstances to first Generation carbon, as it may cause the layers to delaminate due to pressure building up between the layers.Second generation: this is a dry process and 3M's view is that it should be fine. We have successfully fitted film to the Carrera GT which is largely carbon construction (second Gen), we do apply a caveat: that is, do not seal the reverse side of the carbon and monitor the film, if fresh bubbles begin to appear under the film after a month, remove the film IMMEDIATELY!I have a a carbon fibre bonnet on my weekend toy and as its first Gen we could not fit film and the stone chips have caused cracking in the lacquer A real pain when you are in my business). Phew! hope this helps you when deciding on Paint Protection film it really is the most cost effective purchase you will ever make for your car and whoever you use I hope you get what you expect, I am a great believer in an informed consumer market so armed with this information you should be able to ensure you get a great job done for your money.Best WishesTom Wakeford
Migration info. Legacy thread was 21106
