Borescore and Borescope - the new normal for 997.1

Punchdrunked · 4 May 2024

This a subject that’s been niggling away at me now that I’m a fully fledged owner of a MY07 997 C2 with 135k miles on the clock.

I was recently planning on changing the spark plugs - my Indy suggested a borescope. Why, I asked? Just checking, he said, just in case you wanted to scramble down that rabbit hole otherwise called “preventative maintenance.” I politely declined because my car doesn’t use oil in between services, holds good oil pressure and there’s no soot on the passenger’s side exhaust tips. Why would I therefore want to know whether I wanted to spend the best part of £15k on the car or not? Not, thanks.

So it got me thinking - why do folk ask for a borescope just for the sake of it? What are they hoping to achieve? It’d be like taking an HIV test in the olden days (they’re that now in 2024) just for checking’s sake. Who would?

Further, when selling a car and the buyer wants a borescope done as part of the PPI, would you allow it, especially if the cars was in tip. Top condition without symptoms? Ok the buyer might walk away if you refused, but what if they did a scope and it came back “positive” you’d be left with a headache and a huge bill. Personally I wouldn’t want to know so I’d politely decline and carry on advertising.

In 2024 borescope are the norm - it’s everywhere. What would you do?

montygraphics · 4 May 2024

I'm with you on this. If it ain't broke then don't fix it.

As mileage builds up then all engines wear but if you are careful they can last a long time, even if they show some scoring.

I am always surprised at the amount people spend on full engine restorations after a borescope when so many only drive the car 1-3k per year.

It would probably last them years before an engine actually needs restoration.

I bet hardly any of them fail an emissions test because of oil contamination of catalysts etc.

sja360 · 5 May 2024

As your not planning to sell i understand but actually you would struggle to have buyers confident that your car is reliable if at some point it had been checked prior to sale.

I think i am on the side of i would rather know than not as eventually it will effect a sale.

Indischrot · 5 May 2024

I’m in the process of selling my 997.1 and I decided to get mine scoped purely because I know there will be potential buyers asking about it.

Mine also had no symptoms (oil usage, sooty tailpipes, knocking) so I figured it would be fine and luckily it was.

I would rather know what I’m dealing with and price the car accordingly.

Mac68 · 5 May 2024

Punchdrunked said:
This a subject that’s been niggling away at me now that I’m a fully fledged owner of a MY07 997 C2 with 135k miles on the clock.

I was recently planning on changing the spark plugs - my Indy suggested a borescope. Why, I asked? Just checking, he said, just in case you wanted to scramble down that rabbit hole otherwise called “preventative maintenance.” I politely declined because my car doesn’t use oil in between services, holds good oil pressure and there’s no soot on the passenger’s side exhaust tips. Why would I therefore want to know whether I wanted to spend the best part of £15k on the car or not? Not, thanks.

So it got me thinking - why do folk ask for a borescope just for the sake of it? What are they hoping to achieve? It’d be like taking an HIV test in the olden days (they’re that now in 2024) just for checking’s sake. Who would?

Further, when selling a car and the buyer wants a borescope done as part of the PPI, would you allow it, especially if the cars was in tip. Top condition without symptoms? Ok the buyer might walk away if you refused, but what if they did a scope and it came back “positive” you’d be left with a headache and a huge bill. Personally I wouldn’t want to know so I’d politely decline and carry on advertising.

In 2024 borescope are the norm - it’s everywhere. What would you do?

Is it not similar to getting a health check up on your own physical health? I get a wellman checkup annually (no I didn't spell that last word incorrectly

) so that I can spot issues, when they're minor, and address them.

montygraphics · 5 May 2024

This is a car fgs.

Alex · 5 May 2024

No offence, but anyone playing ignorant or awkward about potential bore score on a 997.1 they are selling is a ****'s trick in my book.

remarklima · 5 May 2024

Mac68 said:
Is it not similar to getting a health check up on your own physical health? I get a wellman checkup annually (no I didn't spell that last word incorrectly ) so that I can spot issues, when they're minor, and address them.

I guess so, I get something similar, also annually

Maybe it'll be both this year!!!

But maybe more analogous to a condition that you could live with for the rest of your life if you never knew about it, say a slightly irregular heartbeat, lots of people do have the odd off rhythm and would never know... But when you know do you think everything is a potential heart attack and then go for open heart surgery!? Different from "brakes worn, replace soon".

Alex said:
No offence, but anyone playing ignorant or awkward about potential bore score on a 997.1 they are selling is a ****'s trick in my book.

I agree, however there's a truth to a "it has some scoring" but could be like that for years and years, depending on miles driven without issue. So, as soon as bore score is mentioned, the car is then a basketcase which is also unfair and causes the trickery and buggering around.

Any car that used a load of oil and threw out blue smoke you'd walk away from... It'd not matter the marque. Unless of course it's a VAG engine, as they all seem to use litres and litres of oil between changes and no one bats and eyelid

Acceptable oil consumption of a German car, 50 litres every 100 miles, of a Japanese car, 0 litres!

/joking

Alex · 5 May 2024

remarklima said:
I agree, however there's a truth to a "it has some scoring" but could be like that for years and years, depending on miles driven without issue. So, as soon as bore score is mentioned, the car is then a basketcase which is also unfair and causes the trickery and buggering around.

That's up to the buyer to decide. It's the equivalent of saying - it's missed a couple of services or the ims hasn't been 'done'. It's about being honest with the sale........then the ball is in the buyer's court. What had been suggested above is like saying it's got FSH but I'm not gonna let you look at the service book or invoices.

remarklima · 6 May 2024

I fully agree! I've always sold cars and been 100% honest, and then the buyer can decide...

Similarly, when buying there's nothing worse than someone saying that the car is perfect, you turn up and it's a complete dog. The worst one I remember is a mk1 MR2, which the seller assured me, without doubt, there was no rust and the body was a great condition. I get there and there's more rust than car, literal holes in the front arches... Yet they were insisting that it was OK and I should still test drive it. I did and mechanically it was even worse. What a waste of time for everyone!

R60BBA · 8 May 2024

@Punchdrunked transparency is the best policy, especially these days. For example would you buy a 997 from someone who is coy about allowing a bore scope on the car?

If you are worried about getting asked for a bore scope when selling the car just put it through auction.

Hertsdriver · 10 May 2024

If you want to live in ignorant bliss that's fine, completely your choice.
If you try to sell your car and refuse a borescope by a potential buyer that's also fine, I mean you wont sell your car obviously, but that's fine because you don't want to know.

In your situation at 135k miles personally wouldn't worry about the bore score, your big ends are probably already through the shells and are about to drop a really big bill your way that will make borescore look like a walk in the park

Maxie · 10 May 2024

I allowed a boroscope inspection on my 2006 997.1 C4S when I was selling it in 2017! I had taken out preventative maintenance well before then by fitting a low-temp thermostat and a third central radiator. The amount of sooting on the passenger side tail-pipe significantly reduced since the modifications. But also, having been on this forum for a fair few years, I learned to treat the engine with mechanical sympathy by keeping revs below 2000rpm until the engine oil had warmed up to operating temperature.

Anyway, as a result of all the above, the boroscope showed very minor signs of scoring and the mechanics at Revolution Porsche passed the engine as healthy to the next buyer. I sold for full asking price (£31k with 60k miles).

Punchdrunked · 10 May 2024

Maxie said:
I allowed a boroscope inspection on my 2006 997.1 C4S when I was selling it in 2017! I had taken out preventative maintenance well before then by fitting a low-temp thermostat and a third central radiator. The amount of sooting on the passenger side tail-pipe significantly reduced since the modifications. But also, having been on this forum for a fair few years, I learned to treat the engine with mechanical sympathy by keeping revs below 2000rpm until the engine oil had warmed up to operating temperature.

Anyway, as a result of all the above, the boroscope showed very minor signs of scoring and the mechanics at Revolution Porsche passed the engine as healthy to the next buyer. I sold for full asking price (£31k with 60k miles).

Great story mate but that was 7 years ago in 2017. It’s a totally different market today. From anecdotal evidence on here and elsewhere, any scoring no matter how minor are deemed to require an engine rebuild even if the usual symptoms are absent.

My point in all of this is that no car with ICE will be totally immune from some form of scoring - even Metger engines have been known to have borescore, 997.2’s, 991’s, AMG’s etc. etc.

When I buy a car, I check, check, check and check again. I also never buy a car on the day - I give myself time to digest what I’ve seen; the service history, the MOt history, the HPI check, the owner, the forum checklists, a diagnostic check, cold start, let the engine idle, check the tail pipes (both) for soot, the price. Only then and if I’m satisfied, I’ll buy it. Does it cover all bases? No. Something could still go wrong; the gearbox could pack up, the engine could pack up, whatever, but it’s a second hand car with inherent risks - one cannot cover all bases.

I’m also an honest seller. I won’t lie about my car’s faults and I’d be happy for any inspection. But an endoscopy that could leave me in a situation where I’d have to fix a problem that doesn’t exist, sell at a huge discount or lie to the buyer - no thanks. A potential buyer will either buy on condition, the checks and me as an owner or they won’t. So be it.

Alex · 10 May 2024

An inspection could leave you in the exact same situation, i.e. highlight a fault that's gonna cost £0000's to fix. I fail to see the difference between letting someone have a ppi done and letting them have a borescope done.....so long as they are paying for it.