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isysman
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikeracer1098 wrote:
Saw you bucket seats at Linas workshop last week.

Has the leather surround and alcantara inserts been previously recovered as they don't look like OEM factory finish?


Yeah they are covers I bought to cover them as they had leather. They don't fit very well so I asked Linas to have a look at them.
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Bikeracer1098
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
Bikeracer1098 wrote:
Saw you bucket seats at Linas workshop last week.

Has the leather surround and alcantara inserts been previously recovered as they don't look like OEM factory finish?


Yeah they are covers I bought to cover them as they had leather. They don't fit very well so I asked Linas to have a look at them.


They will look absolutely fantastic once Linas has sprinkled some magic dust on them. Thumb
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isysman
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5498
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikeracer1098 wrote:
isysman wrote:
Bikeracer1098 wrote:
Saw you bucket seats at Linas workshop last week.

Has the leather surround and alcantara inserts been previously recovered as they don't look like OEM factory finish?


Yeah they are covers I bought to cover them as they had leather. They don't fit very well so I asked Linas to have a look at them.


They will look absolutely fantastic once Linas has sprinkled some magic dust on them. Thumb


Yeah I'm excited to see them. Especially after the disappointment of being let down by TechArt for my Suspension kit. I need some good news.
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996ttalot
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
Turbojim997 wrote:
apollokre1d wrote:
AdeD wrote:
Probably a blessing, order a set of Ohlins instead, far superior Very Happy


Interesting, everyone i spoke to has said the opposite, how are they superior?


Who is everyone you have spoken to? Are the track dayers or road drivers? Never heard a bad word about the R&T's.

For fast road passive setups most people I know (who have turbos) have gone Ohlins route. PASM is such a joke in this country, to be fair not tried the DSC box but have read plenty of reviews which says it helps but still not as good as a passive set up.

Ohlins are far superior as a road based set up. Having looked at the options when doing mine the build quality alone is far better than the billies. No doubt KW and Bilstein are fantastic products but just too track focused.


A couple other people who have them fitted and 9e recommend them. One was a road user but the other does track his turbo.
Also I have the TPC module so PASM is not a concern.


What I recommend is based on what someone wants to use the car for. For people to say that Ohlins is better than Bilstein or KW is too broad a statement. On what basis? Have they been set up correctly? How can you tell? Unless you have driven the same car with the same set up over the same test it is difficult. One is active and one isn't. With 20 way adjustment you can make the car ride no different to stock, or as firm as you want. I had someone who wanted to remove KW because they were too firm - actually that was true because whoever set it up put it on maximum settings - 5 minute change and he no longer wanted them removed.

We fit both Ohlins and Bilstein. A while back I would have said Ohlins would have been the better damper.

And then DSC came along....

In general non active suspension has been the go to solution if you are focused on track. Nowadays that gap has closed (including other marques who mostly are active), and actually the DSC gets you to 95% alone in my experience both on fast road and track. The DSC module makes the most impact starting on the 997 model, but still makes a difference on 991GT3RS for example.

If you have PASM, and stick with it, then the cheapest upgrade is the DSC module. Afterwards B16 Damptronics are the logic step if you want to have a better damper and ride height adjustability. What kills a cars handling, which we see on lots of turbos, is lower springs, yet everyone seems to want to fit them. So fitting a proper adjustable damper resolves this.

We fit Ohlins on multiple Porsche (either pre PASM models or PASM). Pre DSC, Ohlins would be the go to solution when a customer will predominately spend time on multiple track days during the year - this assumes that the customer also understands how to adjust themselves for different tracks, what the impact is of changing the rates etc.

The one thing that Ohlins seems to be better at is longevity in terms of corrosion when compared to others. There is definitely a benefit there. And the price of Ohlins is certainly cheaper now than a few years ago, and their R&T is a great damper for the money.

Finally any damper poorly set up will render its benefits useless. If you put a race car driver like the one we have access to on track in PASM/DSC and then Ohlins R&T (with same set up) there will be nothing in it.

Ken
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5498
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996ttalot wrote:
apollokre1d wrote:
Turbojim997 wrote:
apollokre1d wrote:
AdeD wrote:
Probably a blessing, order a set of Ohlins instead, far superior Very Happy


Interesting, everyone i spoke to has said the opposite, how are they superior?


Who is everyone you have spoken to? Are the track dayers or road drivers? Never heard a bad word about the R&T's.

For fast road passive setups most people I know (who have turbos) have gone Ohlins route. PASM is such a joke in this country, to be fair not tried the DSC box but have read plenty of reviews which says it helps but still not as good as a passive set up.

Ohlins are far superior as a road based set up. Having looked at the options when doing mine the build quality alone is far better than the billies. No doubt KW and Bilstein are fantastic products but just too track focused.


A couple other people who have them fitted and 9e recommend them. One was a road user but the other does track his turbo.
Also I have the TPC module so PASM is not a concern.


What I recommend is based on what someone wants to use the car for. For people to say that Ohlins is better than Bilstein or KW is too broad a statement. On what basis? Have they been set up correctly? How can you tell? Unless you have driven the same car with the same set up over the same test it is difficult. One is active and one isn't. With 20 way adjustment you can make the car ride no different to stock, or as firm as you want. I had someone who wanted to remove KW because they were too firm - actually that was true because whoever set it up put it on maximum settings - 5 minute change and he no longer wanted them removed.

We fit both Ohlins and Bilstein. A while back I would have said Ohlins would have been the better damper.

And then DSC came along....

In general non active suspension has been the go to solution if you are focused on track. Nowadays that gap has closed (including other marques who mostly are active), and actually the DSC gets you to 95% alone in my experience both on fast road and track. The DSC module makes the most impact starting on the 997 model, but still makes a difference on 991GT3RS for example.

If you have PASM, and stick with it, then the cheapest upgrade is the DSC module. Afterwards B16 Damptronics are the logic step if you want to have a better damper and ride height adjustability. What kills a cars handling, which we see on lots of turbos, is lower springs, yet everyone seems to want to fit them. So fitting a proper adjustable damper resolves this.

We fit Ohlins on multiple Porsche (either pre PASM models or PASM). Pre DSC, Ohlins would be the go to solution when a customer will predominately spend time on multiple track days during the year - this assumes that the customer also understands how to adjust themselves for different tracks, what the impact is of changing the rates etc.

The one thing that Ohlins seems to be better at is longevity in terms of corrosion when compared to others. There is definitely a benefit there. And the price of Ohlins is certainly cheaper now than a few years ago, and their R&T is a great damper for the money.

Finally any damper poorly set up will render its benefits useless. If you put a race car driver like the one we have access to on track in PASM/DSC and then Ohlins R&T (with same set up) there will be nothing in it.

Ken


Confused

Confused.com

Had a quote for Tractive kit plus DSC plus axle lift today and it was over ten grand!
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You dont need the tractive dampers. The DSC will control your standard PASM dampers.

If you must have lift then ( assuming you dont have it ) then obviously this aint going to help. Lift though is hugely over valued IMHO, a new splitter every so often is far cheaper and far less to go wrong in the future.

If i had a PASM car the only way i would go to mid to top end passive set up over DSC is if i wanted the uber track warrior. Apart from that the DSC/PASM combo offers such a great compromise it should be default choice.
 
  
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jonno_
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Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 191
Location: Oxfordshire

2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isy - understand the frustration at the let-down and long lead times.
Is it worth a try of the DSC box? My apologies if you have already!
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5498
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
You dont need the tractive dampers. The DSC will control your standard PASM dampers.

If you must have lift then ( assuming you dont have it ) then obviously this aint going to help. Lift though is hugely over valued IMHO, a new splitter every so often is far cheaper and far less to go wrong in the future.

If i had a PASM car the only way i would go to mid to top end passive set up over DSC is if i wanted the uber track warrior. Apart from that the DSC/PASM combo offers such a great compromise it should be default choice.


Do you have the DSC setup? Is your Suspension otherwise standard or do you have lowered springs? My car needs to be lowered to get the 'correct ride height', so if I used DSC plus lowering springs would it still have the same effect? I want the lift kit as I don't want to scrap on all the stuff around where I live. Also I intend using the car to go on ferries/trains etc so I need it.
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
Senoj wrote:
You dont need the tractive dampers. The DSC will control your standard PASM dampers.

If you must have lift then ( assuming you dont have it ) then obviously this aint going to help. Lift though is hugely over valued IMHO, a new splitter every so often is far cheaper and far less to go wrong in the future.

If i had a PASM car the only way i would go to mid to top end passive set up over DSC is if i wanted the uber track warrior. Apart from that the DSC/PASM combo offers such a great compromise it should be default choice.


Do you have the DSC setup? Is your Suspension otherwise standard or do you have lowered springs? My car needs to be lowered to get the 'correct ride height', so if I used DSC plus lowering springs would it still have the same effect? I want the lift kit as I don't want to scrap on all the stuff around where I live. Also I intend using the car to go on ferries/trains etc so I need it.


Im guessing you have std turbo pasm right now? Mines a gt3 so suspension is essentially coil over and height adjustable as standard. If you need to lower yours, and im pretty sure you do, then std isn't going to work ( dsc or not is irrelevant here)

You could try shorter springs on your std shocks and then if ( bit hit or miss perhaps) it all looks good still add the dsc for some nice compliance and to keep the switchable option. Or just leave it std.

Personally i'd want to keep the active set up for a "road" car. The billy damptronic are height adjustable, so those with the dsc would be a great set up with loads of potential for adjustments and you can have lift.
 
  
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996ttalot
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Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
Senoj wrote:
You dont need the tractive dampers. The DSC will control your standard PASM dampers.

If you must have lift then ( assuming you dont have it ) then obviously this aint going to help. Lift though is hugely over valued IMHO, a new splitter every so often is far cheaper and far less to go wrong in the future.

If i had a PASM car the only way i would go to mid to top end passive set up over DSC is if i wanted the uber track warrior. Apart from that the DSC/PASM combo offers such a great compromise it should be default choice.


Do you have the DSC setup? Is your Suspension otherwise standard or do you have lowered springs? My car needs to be lowered to get the 'correct ride height', so if I used DSC plus lowering springs would it still have the same effect? I want the lift kit as I don't want to scrap on all the stuff around where I live. Also I intend using the car to go on ferries/trains etc so I need it.


Not long in - I got the same story today from them buddy - no eta that is a definite.

Btw let me know if you want anything from TPC - we are their number one dealer in UK so I can get you best price

Ken
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5498
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996ttalot wrote:
isysman wrote:
Senoj wrote:
You dont need the tractive dampers. The DSC will control your standard PASM dampers.

If you must have lift then ( assuming you dont have it ) then obviously this aint going to help. Lift though is hugely over valued IMHO, a new splitter every so often is far cheaper and far less to go wrong in the future.

If i had a PASM car the only way i would go to mid to top end passive set up over DSC is if i wanted the uber track warrior. Apart from that the DSC/PASM combo offers such a great compromise it should be default choice.


Do you have the DSC setup? Is your Suspension otherwise standard or do you have lowered springs? My car needs to be lowered to get the 'correct ride height', so if I used DSC plus lowering springs would it still have the same effect? I want the lift kit as I don't want to scrap on all the stuff around where I live. Also I intend using the car to go on ferries/trains etc so I need it.


Not long in - I got the same story today from them buddy - no eta that is a definite.

Btw let me know if you want anything from TPC - we are their number one dealer in UK so I can get you best price

Ken


Hi Ken, I think I'm going to wait until September to see if they (TechArt) deliver the equipment then. If they delay again I'll rethink. This kit does seem to be the right fit for what I need and it's at about the right price range.
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symoonbeam
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Joined: 02 Jun 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isy
FWIW - I have the DSC module fitted to my car - originally on std PASM shocks and springs and latterly on H&R lowering springs.
The DSC module transforms the car, and is now custom programmable so you can change response to suit your needs.
I have not noticed any detrimental effects from fitting lowering springs.
Alex at 9e who fitted the springs complimented the overall stance achieved - and I was able to drive the car back to France without any grounding issues either from UK speed bumps or the ferry ramps.
At some point in the future I will probably change to Bilstein Damptronics with the DSC as I think this will be the best compromise for 95% road use.
Regards
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isysman
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

symoonbeam wrote:
Isy
FWIW - I have the DSC module fitted to my car - originally on std PASM shocks and springs and latterly on H&R lowering springs.
The DSC module transforms the car, and is now custom programmable so you can change response to suit your needs.
I have not noticed any detrimental effects from fitting lowering springs.
Alex at 9e who fitted the springs complimented the overall stance achieved - and I was able to drive the car back to France without any grounding issues either from UK speed bumps or the ferry ramps.
At some point in the future I will probably change to Bilstein Damptronics with the DSC as I think this will be the best compromise for 95% road use.
Regards


Thanks for the info. The car looks good! However I have the GT2RS front bumper and lip on now and it will be very low once lowered to the correct height. I'm going on a road trip which will mean needing to get on (and off) a ferry and the trains coming back so I'll need the lift. Also getting to my house would be a little tricky without it as I live in a village that has many speed-bumps. I may look into the DSC at some point but after the suspension is fitted.
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ironside
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Joined: 24 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
AdeD wrote:
isysman wrote:
So I've been phoning around to try to get a set of B16 Damptronics and it seems there is a world wide shortage! That's not sarcasm either nobody has them. So my plan to have the car ready for this trip looks like it's not going to happen now. If anyone knows of a shop with them in stock please let me know.


Probably a blessing, order a set of Ohlins instead, far superior Very Happy


The problem is I want/need the axle lift and the Ohlins don't work with the PASM. Do you have those fitted?



My 997.2 Turbo S,has H&R Roll Bar's,Bilstein Damptronic's amd a Nose Lift Kit fitted,it's pretty Harsh but i like the Ride,it's recently gone to ES Motor's for their ES650 Kit to be fitted all their Staff Car's have the Ohlin's Coilovers fitted and they commented how Firm my Car was,but that the Handling was Superb,i've not been in a 997 Turbo with the Ohlin's fitted but ES told me they're Definitely a Softer Smoother Ride thumbsup
 
  
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isysman
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5498
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ironside wrote:
isysman wrote:
AdeD wrote:
isysman wrote:
So I've been phoning around to try to get a set of B16 Damptronics and it seems there is a world wide shortage! That's not sarcasm either nobody has them. So my plan to have the car ready for this trip looks like it's not going to happen now. If anyone knows of a shop with them in stock please let me know.


Probably a blessing, order a set of Ohlins instead, far superior Very Happy


The problem is I want/need the axle lift and the Ohlins don't work with the PASM. Do you have those fitted?



My 997.2 Turbo S,has H&R Roll Bar's,Bilstein Damptronic's amd a Nose Lift Kit fitted,it's pretty Harsh but i like the Ride,it's recently gone to ES Motor's for their ES650 Kit to be fitted all their Staff Car's have the Ohlin's Coilovers fitted and they commented how Firm my Car was,but that the Handling was Superb,i've not been in a 997 Turbo with the Ohlin's fitted but ES told me they're Definitely a Softer Smoother Ride thumbsup


Thanks for the info. How are your Damptronics set up as they are adjustable? Someone else on here fitted Damptronics and said on the softer setting he initially put them on it was too soft and he had to change the setting.
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ironside
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my Knowledge Bilstein Damptronic's are not Adjustable apart from the PASM Sport Button for Soft or the Harder Sport Setting.
My H&R Anti Roll Bars have 3 settings Soft,Medium & Hard settings my Rears Bars are set to Medium and the Front Soft i think Centre Gravity set them up,Nose Lift is a Godsend,i've a Steep Drive,so i'd be on about the 3rd Splitter if i'd didn't have the NL Fitted Sad
 
  
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isysman
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ironside wrote:
To my Knowledge Bilstein Damptronic's are not Adjustable apart from the PASM Sport Button for Soft or the Harder Sport Setting.
My H&R Anti Roll Bars have 3 settings Soft,Medium & Hard settings my Rears Bars are set to Medium and the Front Soft i think Centre Gravity set them up,Nose Lift is a Godsend,i've a Steep Drive,so i'd be on about the 3rd Splitter if i'd didn't have the NL Fitted Sad


If they are the B16 then they are

* Adjustable setting levels for the most dynamic driving experience
* Round threads for easy adjustment

http://www.bilsteinus.com/products/electronic-suspension-systems/bilstein-damptronic/

I already have the H&R anti-roll bars myself. It's currently on TechArt lowering springs as well but they only lower 10mm from stock.

I asked Tech9 if the TechArt lift kit fits the Ohlins but they don't know.
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="isysman"]
ironside wrote:
To my Knowledge Bilstein Damptronic's are not Adjustable apart from the PASM Sport Button for Soft or the Harder

If they are the B16 then they are

* Adjustable setting levels for the most dynamic driving experience
* Round threads for easy adjustment



I wouldn't be so sure on that. Firstly its a really poor translation into English as none of it makes much sense.

Its very unlikely they are adjustable other than the "adjustment" allowed by the PASM system, this is just going to be damper stiffness with in the range and dynamics of the standard PASM program . (Vastly improved range of adjustment with DSC btw)

The other adjustments are for ride height.

Id be really surprised if there was any passive adjustment of the dampers as well.
 
  
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isysman
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the forum members DJones fitted them to his GT2 replica (996 Turbo) and he talked about how when he first set them up they were too soft so he adjusted them to be a bit firmer. I'll try to find the quote.
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Senoj
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
One of the forum members DJones fitted them to his GT2 replica (996 Turbo) and he talked about how when he first set them up they were too soft so he adjusted them to be a bit firmer. I'll try to find the quote.


996 has no PASM though. So probably not damptronics?
 
  
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