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nick w
Zolder


Joined: 02 Feb 2009
Posts: 5173
Location: Kent

2010 Porsche 997 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
nick w wrote:
It looks like a top job, and I take my hat off you for the huge financial
commitment !! But why, oh why would you want to elect to have c /locks
with all the inherent issues (with few tyre centres having the kit/knowledge
or competence to change tyres). So a lot of owners get stuck with getting
the local OPC to supply and fit replacement tyres....then there's the re-
torquing issue, if you don't have the torque wrench/breaker bar etc.

Most of us who have the c/locks wished that we had the 5 lug hubs....


It's expensive yes, but I do make back some of the money when I sell off the old equipment that is removed.

For example the steering wheel was £250 and airbag £550 so in total £800 but I sold the old wheel for £180 and the old airbag for £275 so deduct £455.

So actually £345 for the 'upgrade'. I fitted it myself so I saved myself a few hundred.

If people on here were offered a GT3 Gen.2 wheel for £345 fitted, the people who would be interested would jump at the chance I think.

As for the centre locks. I did a lot of research on it before I committed. I read everything there was to read about it, and at the time it was still an issue with it only just being resolved. The forums were still busy discussing it. I also had copies of letters sent out to customers from Porsche etc. The realities were that only a handful of cars had failures. All were GT3s (I think 3 cars had failures) and all had been driven hard on track. With the revised equipment fitted there haven't been any more failures.

My car is not tracked - ever, so I decided there was no risk to my car. Also my car had the revised equipment fitted and if it was tracked then I'd follow the procedures Porsche have recommended. Yes it's a bother if I want to remove my wheels but I never do that anyway.


I'm sorry, if if you think that ''Only a handful of cars had failures'' you're
mistaken. Porsche might be saying that, but it's a load of old tosh... my
Gen 2 GT3 was a nightmare...two visits to an OPC, then the n/s/r locking
nut failed, and my car ended up on a flatbed. At the time, I hadn't even
started tracking the car. The early gen 2 cars (first 10 or so months of
production) all got recalls. I know for a fact, about all the different recalls,
and the technology and implimentation are frankly not great with the
c/locks/ hubs/ carriers/bearings....just my two pence worth, kind of
been there, done the complaints letters bit and produced the video too !!

But hey, your car looks the business, and it's all good that you're
recouping some of your outlay with selling off the old parts !. Wink
_________________
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Giff
Monza


Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 203



PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the Kenu Airframe, very useful little thing.
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nick w wrote:
isysman wrote:
nick w wrote:
It looks like a top job, and I take my hat off you for the huge financial
commitment !! But why, oh why would you want to elect to have c /locks
with all the inherent issues (with few tyre centres having the kit/knowledge
or competence to change tyres). So a lot of owners get stuck with getting
the local OPC to supply and fit replacement tyres....then there's the re-
torquing issue, if you don't have the torque wrench/breaker bar etc.

Most of us who have the c/locks wished that we had the 5 lug hubs....


It's expensive yes, but I do make back some of the money when I sell off the old equipment that is removed.

For example the steering wheel was £250 and airbag £550 so in total £800 but I sold the old wheel for £180 and the old airbag for £275 so deduct £455.

So actually £345 for the 'upgrade'. I fitted it myself so I saved myself a few hundred.

If people on here were offered a GT3 Gen.2 wheel for £345 fitted, the people who would be interested would jump at the chance I think.

As for the centre locks. I did a lot of research on it before I committed. I read everything there was to read about it, and at the time it was still an issue with it only just being resolved. The forums were still busy discussing it. I also had copies of letters sent out to customers from Porsche etc. The realities were that only a handful of cars had failures. All were GT3s (I think 3 cars had failures) and all had been driven hard on track. With the revised equipment fitted there haven't been any more failures.

My car is not tracked - ever, so I decided there was no risk to my car. Also my car had the revised equipment fitted and if it was tracked then I'd follow the procedures Porsche have recommended. Yes it's a bother if I want to remove my wheels but I never do that anyway.


I'm sorry, if if you think that ''Only a handful of cars had failures'' you're
mistaken. Porsche might be saying that, but it's a load of old tosh... my
Gen 2 GT3 was a nightmare...two visits to an OPC, then the n/s/r locking
nut failed, and my car ended up on a flatbed. At the time, I hadn't even
started tracking the car. The early gen 2 cars (first 10 or so months of
production) all got recalls. I know for a fact, about all the different recalls,
and the technology and implimentation are frankly not great with the
c/locks/ hubs/ carriers/bearings....just my two pence worth, kind of
been there, done the complaints letters bit and produced the video too !!

But hey, your car looks the business, and it's all good that you're
recouping some of your outlay with selling off the old parts !. Wink


There were a small number of failures. I know all cars produced before a certain date were recalled. Maybe that figure was just in the US, can't remember. But I was satisfied I wasn't in any danger of it happening to me, well any more so than other systems failing.

This is why I had the conversion done by Porsche, so if anything did happen they couldn't accuse me of having a poor job done without it coming back on themselves. Even the mechanics at the dealership were surprised to hear what I was having done.

There have been no further issues since the changes and there are I'm sure plenty of GT3s being thrashed at race tracks all over the world as we speak.
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The second article that's recently gone to print in a non Porsche magazine

Part 2 Power!



Just over a year into ownership and the car was booked in to visit one of the countries authorities in performance tuning – DMS Automotive. Only just completing 3,500 miles in one year of ownership and having to leave the car for long periods for work meant that each time it was taken out of hibernation there was a great rekindling of the love affair in learning to appreciate the car all over again. So there was no shortage of excitement still being had. And every time you put your foot down it’s hard to imagine that anything on four wheels can move faster, so more power was not really something that really was needed. It started as a simple exhaust upgrade; the standard car is low on the audio soundtrack that usually accompanies a car of this calibre. I wanted to find something that would make it sound as exciting is its performance. I found the right exhaust, now I needed someone to fit it, but also someone with a rolling road that could take my car. And once I contacted DMS Automotive in Southampton the slippery slope started.

As is in life: anything that is worth doing is worth doing properly. Although it’s possible to take a completely standard car to DMS and have it remapped and receive some great gains, to really get the full benefits, you need to change a few key items. So to allow the car to breath it would be fitted with a BMC performance air filter, it would get a new exhaust and cats, and to allow the turbos to stay cool and keep the power coming longer the intercoolers would be replaced with the same items fitted to the GT2RS. Not cheap but then if you own a 911 Turbo it’s not out of your reach either and it’s cheaper, or at least less expensive than you might think.

When you arrive at DMS Automotive in Southampton, you are greeted with a very modern, large building. Gone are the days of dirty, oily garages; and in is the clean, well kept, warm workshop with polished floors and an environment you are happy to be in, rather than one you can’t wait to get out of. An early start saw the garage shutters opening and the sounds of exotica rumbling into life as they emptied it of cars that have stayed there overnight. A (turbo charged) Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche 997 Turbo, Audi RS5, and a Lotus, just a few of the long list of cars they cater for.

First stop for hardward is Kline Innovation for an exhaust system. Kline are new kids on the block in terms of the UK at least, but their exhausts show a skill level to match or surpass any other premium manufacturer out there today. Made from Stainless steel T304 grade material used in the Aerospace industry and TUV approved, they can produce their quite stunning looking exhaust systems in Titanium if you prefer or even using Inconel – a super strong metal used to make fan blades in jet engines. If you choose the latter, so robust it is they guarantee it for 99 years! The air filter came from BMC, as not heavily oiled like some of the other filters on the market and recommended by other 997 owners on various forums. As for the intercoolers, well it was an easy choice; Porsche’s own GT2RS intercoolers would be used.


BMC Air filter




As soon as the car was on the ramp Martin Price, one of the mechanics started stripping the car. Off would come the rear bumper, bumper guard, taillights, heat shield, intercoolers and old exhaust. “Removing the old exhaust usually takes three hours on a car this age. The nuts are usually rounded off and I have to sit here with a hammer and chisel! Yours seems to be in very good condition, that’s very rare. It’s possible that your car has had a plug change recently, as the exhaust has to come off for that.”

Stripping the car







Sport cats (200 cell) and the decat pipe

Decat pipes will add 15-20bhp on sport cats. However they wouldn't pass an mot in the UK and would fail any emissions tests. Sport cats on the other hand are legal and comply with UK regulations.



600 cell cats on original exhaust system. Sports cats have 200 cells. Referring to number of airways inside the cat. Less number of larger cells means increased performance. Standard cats cells are very small.



Once removed the new exhaust was offered to the car, it took a little longer than normal to put the new system together as it has an extra set of screws where the 200 cell catalectic converters are attached. Most aftermarket systems are made in one piece, however Kline also offers the option of Decat pipes, which are not approved for use in the UK and would not pass an MOT (also increasing your emissions). They could be used however if you were going to track the car or on a racing car.







I think they might have done this once or twice before



The Intercoolers being wider than the standard units require slight modifications to the ducting that guides the air through them at speed, cooling the oil that in turn cools the turbos. You could purchase the GT2RS ducting but as with all things Porsche it’s expensive, and anyway the chaps at DMS have a workaround, involving trimming the plastic on one end, drilling holes and securing with zip ties.

Intercoolers (new on the left)




To avoid having to buy new ducting the chaps at DMS have a workaround





Once the car was reassembled it was time for the rolling road to complete the remap. Runs pre modifications showed a respectable 478hp and 480Ib ft of torque. Rob Young, one of the owners of DMS owns a 997 Turbo. This car has been featured in various magazines over the years including Total 911 and 911 & Porsche World. The benefits to customers is that he has spent years creating and refining his maps to give the absolute best performance available. After the hardware and after the map was added to my car, the results were stunning: 621hp and 590In ft of torque. Rolling road figures are not definitive, results can alter based on weather condition, humidity, temperature, type of tyres fitted on the car etc. etc. So the numbers are just a approximation. However standard figures seemed to be bang on so it’s a good idea of what to expect on the street.








The drive home was a learning experience. There is slightly more noise in the cab now but hey that’s what I wanted! The linear power delivery has changed; it still feels smooth as the rev counter passes through 2,000rpm, the boost starts as it would a standard car but then it hits 3 grand and the floodgates open. The car wakes up fully and the powerful surge comes. If you plant your foot flat, the delivery is brutal, almost violent, and you are pushed back firmly in the seat. The noise comes at the same time and for the first time since owning the car I turned off my music, opened the window and just listened and enjoyed the soundtrack.

You have to relearn how far you plant your foot, as your old knowledge is now invalid. Do what you used to and you could be in a tree in seconds. First gear passes so quickly it’s all you can do to stop it hitting the rev limiter. Previously the power came in a silky smooth, almost apologetic way, and was all done at 5000 revs, but now it now revs to well over 6500 until the rev limiter calls time. The car remains docile when you are being light footed or cruising which is a relief because otherwise it would be hard to live with if it was always the raging monster it can be. If you want civilized just keep the revs under 3,000rpm and it drives pretty much like a NA Carrera even though the turbos still come on boost if you’re too eager.

When I started down this route I couldn’t imagine going faster in my 911 Turbo. I knew there were faster cars, but when my foot was flat down it was hard to imagine anything moving more quickly. It seemed to be almost everything I wanted in a car. Now I know it is everything I was looking for and more. Can I live with it day to day? Very easily, it’s a sweetheart when I’m cruising and a monster when I give it a foot full. And amazingly it doesn’t seem any worse on fuel than before. I’m still averaging 23mpg driving on mainly urban roads and I’m still able to get 33+ MPG on the motorway. It really is a win win.

Still getting 33MPG on the motorway (driving carefully) with this much power!


Upgrades video


Open Youtube Page


Make what you will of the figures in the video. How the car feels (and sounds) on the street is what matters and it feels and sounds epic!

Tech 9

The car going into Tech 9 tomorrow for the next phase of the conversion: GT2RS rear bumper and LED lights! Looking forward to seeing the results.
_________________
911 GT2RS Build & 981 Boxster S
Sold ~ 987 Boxster S 3.4, 997.1 3.8 Cab, 987 3.2 Boxster S, 986 Boxster 2.5



Last edited by isysman on Tue Jul 04, 2017 4:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2992
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really enjoying this thread, thanks for the effort you've put into it.
Do you mind my asking how much the performance mods all cost? (Including the exhaust and intercooler replacements)
 
  
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gadgetJunky72
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 572
Location: NW London


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've fallen out of love with my 997T. maybe a conversion like this might be cheaper than replacing it.
 
  
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Maxie
Yas Marina


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 8386
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gadgetJunky72 wrote:
i've fallen out of love with my 997T. maybe a conversion like this might be cheaper than replacing it.

Still not loving the Tip, GJ?

~ Maxie
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gadgetJunky72 wrote:
i've fallen out of love with my 997T. maybe a conversion like this might be cheaper than replacing it.


Hmm not sure about that. I've probably spent 10 grand already and as you can see I've got a way to go yet. I'd say another 15 grand at least!

What is it you don't like about the car? I love the way it drives etc I just don't like the look of the standard car so much.
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Sold ~ 987 Boxster S 3.4, 997.1 3.8 Cab, 987 3.2 Boxster S, 986 Boxster 2.5

 
  
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chimp911
Zolder


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 5917


2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:
...I love the way it drives etc I just don't like the look of the standard car so much.


Once you've owned a turbo for a while it starts to look/feel very ordinary next to GT3s or other marque exotica, especially if it's in a safe colour - £25k seems like an awful lot to spend but I'm liking what you've done so far... Thumb
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimp911 wrote:
isysman wrote:
...I love the way it drives etc I just don't like the look of the standard car so much.


Once you've owned a turbo for a while it starts to look/feel very ordinary next to GT3s or other marque exotica, especially if it's in a safe colour - £25k seems like an awful lot to spend but I'm liking what you've done so far... Thumb


Yes it is a lot and if I had it all in the bank and I had to write the cheque in one go I don't think I could do it. However I'm doing it over a few years so it's a few grand here and there so it doesn't seem so bad. Makes sense right? Haha

Dropped the car off today at Tech9 for the rear bumper conversion. Worst thing is I have to go overseas maybe Thursday and they don't think it will be ready by then. So they are going to deliver it to my house. But it means I'll have to wait 10 weeks before I can see the job! Doh!
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gadgetJunky72
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 572
Location: NW London


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm really looking forward to seeing how the back looks.
 
  
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Ian Donkin
Monza


Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 246
Location: A Yorkshireman in Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isysman wrote:


Yes it is a lot and if I had it all in the bank and I had to write the cheque in one go I don't think I could do it. However I'm doing it over a few years so it's a few grand here and there so it doesn't seem so bad. Makes sense right? Haha



Loving the man-maths... We are all good at this Smile
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Previously:
'04 996 Turbo
'94 993 Carrera
'93 964 Turbo 2
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'71 2.4T ('72 Model year)
'68 911L (The Wife's car)
 
  
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Nytol
Montreal


Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 510
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not usually a fan of such things, but I love your car and the bits you have done to it so far.

I think the Turbo looks better than the GT2 myself, and for me your car right now is about perfect.

What happened to the video?
 
  
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gadgetJunky72
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 572
Location: NW London


PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maxie wrote:
gadgetJunky72 wrote:
i've fallen out of love with my 997T. maybe a conversion like this might be cheaper than replacing it.

Still not loving the Tip, GJ?

~ Maxie

more what chimp911 said "Once you've owned a turbo for a while it starts to look/feel very ordinary next to GT3s or other marque exotica".
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
Really enjoying this thread, thanks for the effort you've put into it.
Do you mind my asking how much the performance mods all cost? (Including the exhaust and intercooler replacements)


Sorry missed this post earlier. Exhaust is about £2100 but I hear they have changed their UK supplier to 9M but not 100% sure about that currently.

DMS work would be about £4500 but I'm not sure as prices change. Best to contact DMS for pricing.
_________________
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Sold ~ 987 Boxster S 3.4, 997.1 3.8 Cab, 987 3.2 Boxster S, 986 Boxster 2.5



Last edited by isysman on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nytol wrote:
I'm not usually a fan of such things, but I love your car and the bits you have done to it so far.

I think the Turbo looks better than the GT2 myself, and for me your car right now is about perfect.

What happened to the video?


Not sure what happened to the video link but there is a working link in my signature.
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chimp911
Zolder


Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Posts: 5917


2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impressive figures - I'd have wanted the test done before the exhaust swap to get a true baseline and then with and without the sport function to see what extra that truly gives - in this case no such thing as TMI Thumb
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimp911 wrote:
Impressive figures - I'd have wanted the test done before the exhaust swap to get a true baseline and then with and without the sport function to see what extra that truly gives - in this case no such thing as TMI Thumb


Time constraints really. If we'd run the car in the morning to get the figures which I wanted to do, we would have had to wait for the car to cool down. As it was we were in the workshop from 8:30am until after 7:00pm at night.
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Big Jock
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 310
Location: Culroy


PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Youve must have more money than sense.Im not even sure what it is youre trying to do.But hey,each to his own.
 
  
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isysman
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Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5863
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Jock wrote:
Youve must have more money than sense.Im not even sure what it is youre trying to do.But hey,each to his own.


The answer is in the title.
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