964 targa ?

This 964 has been on Pistonheads and eBay for weeks now - anyone reckon it's worth a trip up north to view?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1990-PORS...2039470?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4d23bc862e

My suspicion is probably not. Had recent engine rebuild but not got all stamps in the book. But I am a fan of the colour and shape, if perhaps not some of the bling.

Thanks

Paul

I couldn't see a reference to the stamps in the book. Is the service gap recent or from ages ago?

If there are receipts to back up work, but no stamps I wouldnt let that bother you, but id want a full PPI with engine check before proceeding.

Wheels and interior guage trim rings could be replaced in minutes, so I wouldnt let that trouble you

Chris

Thanks Chris - that's really helpful

Just one more thing (in a columbo style)...

Check the condition of the targa top. These arent cheap to replace (do a search on here). If it leaks it needs re-trimming. If its totally knackered then its big £££s.

I *think* there's one or two people on here hunting for cheap targas on the quiet, as these are likely the next 964s to jump in value.

Maybe a few others will drop in with other suggestions?

Chris

By far the best colour.




I may be ever so slightly biased in my view.

Sold!
Not to me mind. I rang earlier to put a deposit down then go and collect on Sunday. Been watching it all week but had to pay a few workmen first. Probably for the best as we still have to spec the kitchen up.

The seller took a deposit today. I'd have taken a punt on it for that price mind. It's had a lot of the 964 things done that I'd do eg cup mirrors, veloce wheels, new lights.

The wheels are just horrible :nooo:

I got a sense something was not quite right which is why I didn't pursue this one further. Current seller may have spent his cash on all the wrong things, like the wheels and alcantara headlining, but no real indication of proper servicing? Car has also had two engine rebuilds in 10 years so suspect it has had a troubled past. Original wheels were apparently in very bad condition so seller scrapped them - why? Car did look nice though. Although new wheels to me look OTT, perhaps the main reason why this car didn't sell for weeks. All that glistens...

Thanks very much for everyone's advice

Yep, don't get me wrong the wheels aren't something I'd go out and buy but they are nicer than D90's for example. Only in my opinion mind. I don't think it's fair to say the owner has spent money on the wrong things. If the engine has been rebuilt and is healthy then next would be the bodywork, which is described as refreshed. As I said the rear lights and cup mirrors are both items I'd need to do to a lot of the 964s that pop up for sale, so they are a big bonus in my book. The car sits nice and the wheels whilst being a bit blingy, are a nice design. Baltic is near the bottom of my colour preferences on 964s but it looks clean and the black leather with blue piping looks good.

I agree that all that glistens.... etc

The car was sold a couple of weeks ago but fell through. Did the buyer find something out? Who knows, but it was cheap, so just maybe someone has got a nice usable car.
The other argument is "If something looks too good to be true, it usually is".

Seller is ringing me back if this buyer pulls out. To be honest if that happened alarm bells would be ringing.

You are right, the mirrors are an improvement (although probably don't add value, long term will be a detriment as not original). But the wheels and instrument trims will put many off. The fact the old wheels were too bad to repair and the seller needed to re-laquer the paint may suggest an unloved car over its lifetime. Not clear whether it has had a service since the rebuild in 2012? Perhaps history is now irrelevant, but I'm always wary of cars without stamps in the book. Sure, engine has been rebuilt but what about transmission, suspension, brakes and exhaust? It tends usually to be the case that a car that has been on sale at a low price for a long time has some sort of problem or flaw. But not necessarily so, perhaps £16k is still around the right price point for 964 targas? Paintwork and engine both seemed to be sorted, and personally I think looks great in Baltic. Leather looks lovely too. So as you say either someone is getting a nice car at a good price or a potential money pit. That's the gamble with most reaonably priced old cars I guess. Question is if current buyer does pull out, would you still buy...?

Good question, I think I'd be asking some very frank questions and saying "If the last guy found a problem, I'll find that problem so don't waste both our time and tell me what's up". Of course some people still try it on.

I'm interested in it but it's one of those cars you just have to view on its own merits on the day. I know that's a right dodgy car dealers phrase when they're trying to palm off some pile of junk but it's the case here. £16k isn't going to get a lovely, low mile, low owner example. I'd basically be checking the 2 biggest money items (engine and bodywork), have a drive of it to check clutch, brakes, gearbox then check what works and what doesn't on the interior/electrics.
If it checks out and the car isn't bent or ringed that would do me. They're always going to be a but of a rolling project at that price. I'm looking at this type of thing because A) it's all my budget will allow at present, but B) I want a car I can fiddle on myself again, bringing things up to scratch etc. I also wNt something I can just use and ignore the mileage racking up.
Having just sold my MK1 GT3 I want a break from the serious side of 911 ownership where it's all about values and "Ooh you must have that done by that specialist! Anyone else doesn't know what they're doing!" Bollocks to all that. Plus having 60k miles on I was always thinking "Hmm I don't want to take this upto 70k or over as it will be less desirable". It's just daft and totally takes the fun out of cars.
So like I say I'm going back to basics. Right now is actually the worst possible time for me to buy as we are half way through the house refurb that made me sell the GT3. Still have flooring throughout, decor and kitchen to buy.
We've gone from Poggen Pohl, down to Howdens, down to ikea.

I still think the market is artificially high so my plan was to do the house and get back into a 964 when I'm 40. I'm 37 now. But there's that niggling thought that if that if I don't buy now, I may never be able to afford one again. But those thoughts are what fuel these crazy booms so I'm not buying into it. I'll keep one eye on the market but pretty much intend to wait a couple of years.
Anyway sorry for the rant.

There are some odd suspicions about the car being mentioned in this thread. First off I should say I'm not familiar with it*. Second, the important thing about the engine rebuild is to see the invoice and who did the work. My own engine has had two rebuilds. The simple reason being that it was a sticking plaster job the first time, on the cheap (before I owned it). The second time I had it done myself but properly this time at a cost of £7,000. This car might be a similar story, so you need to find out.

The G50 transmission on these cars is as near to bomb proof as being possible. Maintenance is usually not much more than a seal no and again plus gear oil changes. Brakes are just a consumable. Calipers are built very well and might only need refurbing to remove corrosion under the spring plates. Discs are cheap at about £60 a corner and pads are just a little more per axle. If suspension hasn't been fully changed after 20+ years then indeed it will need doing but that's surely not too much to expect.

Missing service stamps over a 20+ year period are to be expected. Especially later on when the car will have only been owned as a weekend toy and do much fewer miles. If this one hasn't got a stamp since 2012 when the engine was rebuilt, it's probably because it's only a couple of thousand miles since it was done.

It's cheap because it's a targa. If it was a coupe with a full engine rebuild it would be near twice the price. Anyone buying a 964 should have some funds set a side to spend on it over the next year or two to bring it up to their own expectations. The good news is that most of the things you want sorting are unlikely to stop you from driving while you work out your schedule for fixing it up.

*I saw a similar targa in Unit 11 Warrington having a full rebuild a few years ago but I'm not sure if it is this one.

Boxsey said:

There are some odd suspicions about the car being mentioned in this thread. First off I should say I'm not familiar with it*. Second, the important thing about the engine rebuild is to see the invoice and who did the work. My own engine has had two rebuilds. The simple reason being that it was a sticking plaster job the first time, on the cheap (before I owned it). The second time I had it done myself but properly this time at a cost of £7,000. This car might be a similar story, so you need to find out.

The G50 transmission on these cars is as near to bomb proof as being possible. Maintenance is usually not much more than a seal no and again plus gear oil changes. Brakes are just a consumable. Calipers are built very well and might only need refurbing to remove corrosion under the spring plates. Discs are cheap at about £60 a corner and pads are just a little more per axle. If suspension hasn't been fully changed after 20+ years then indeed it will need doing but that's surely not too much to expect.

Missing service stamps over a 20+ year period are to be expected. Especially later on when the car will have only been owned as a weekend toy and do much fewer miles. If this one hasn't got a stamp since 2012 when the engine was rebuilt, it's probably because it's only a couple of thousand miles since it was done.

It's cheap because it's a targa. If it was a coupe with a full engine rebuild it would be near twice the price. Anyone buying a 964 should have some funds set a side to spend on it over the next year or two to bring it up to their own expectations. The good news is that most of the things you want sorting are unlikely to stop you from driving while you work out your schedule for fixing it up.

*I saw a similar targa in Unit 11 Warrington having a full rebuild a few years ago but I'm not sure if it is this one.

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Some very sage advice here. If you paid PPI prices for this advice on headed paper stretching over three pages you would consider it good value.

I also think Marky911's prior post was largely on the money.

The more 964s i look at, the more i realise just how brilliant mine is. I don't think i knew how lucky i was to find mine until i looked closely at others... And still i know that sooner or later mine will consume some big bills. Until then I'll just open the sunroof and lower my window and press the loud pedal t the floor... :driving:

langers1970 said:

You are right, the mirrors are an improvement (although probably don't add value, long term will be a detriment as not original). But the wheels and instrument trims will put many off. The fact the old wheels were too bad to repair and the seller needed to re-laquer the paint may suggest an unloved car over its lifetime. Not clear whether it has had a service since the rebuild in 2012? Perhaps history is now irrelevant, but I'm always wary of cars without stamps in the book. Sure, engine has been rebuilt but what about transmission, suspension, brakes and exhaust? It tends usually to be the case that a car that has been on sale at a low price for a long time has some sort of problem or flaw. But not necessarily so, perhaps £16k is still around the right price point for 964 targas? Paintwork and engine both seemed to be sorted, and personally I think looks great in Baltic. Leather looks lovely too. So as you say either someone is getting a nice car at a good price or a potential money pit. That's the gamble with most reaonably priced old cars I guess. Question is if current buyer does pull out, would you still buy...?

Click to expand...

Really can't see stick on (easy to remove) gauge trim rings and Veloce wheels putting people off. D90s are £400 a set and you'd easily swap those.

As for cup mirrors being a detriment to re-sale, I'm doubting that. People are looking for sympathetically modified 964s these days.

With the above done and as long as PPI stacks up it looked a good cheap project.

Chris