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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:23 pm    Post subject: Car will not start, but is cranking over?? Reply with quote

Hi guys,

My car will NOT start? It has fuel, charge, has no alarm/immobiliser other than the Porsche standard stuff. When you try and start it, it will just turn over and not fire up into life..

One thing worth noting, I topped up the oil a little too much. Maybe a litre absolute maximum, checked the reader and it said it was above the max so I immediate remove a litre of oil or so from the sump and tightened again..

I'm not sure whether the oil over filling is relevant, because I didn't attempted to drive the car before I put a bit of oil in, and if it was over, which I find it very hard to believe it was, it would have minimal as I only added around a litre.

Thinking back over the last couple of weeks, the car has been getting harder to start (cranking a little longer than fire up), but that could be my brain playing tricks on me!

Called the AA and I don't have home start as my cover is through my bank.. They wanted 104 just to come out to me! Then that doesn't cover towing the car to a garage should they not be able to fix, which I doubt they will.

In a bit of a rut. I hope I have been clear here, if not please ask and I will answer. Thanks guys and really looking forward to some ideas/knowledge!

Thanks, Steve
 
  
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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick update..

Just got home from work and tried to start up the car.. It seemed like it was going start this time.. For second I thought she had bitten.. Not the case though.

What does this suggest?
 
  
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RS2 JIM
Trainee


Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 59
Location: Aberdeen


PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it have flooded? i.e. too much fuel in the chamber to allow a spark. Odd in a modern car but quite common on classics.
 
  
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thebig25
Nürburgring


Joined: 27 Sep 2008
Posts: 459



PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had this a few months ago, in my case it turned out to be a new cam position sensor. Recovered it to dealer who put a new one on and it fired straight up.
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nicholas lawrence
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Posts: 1319
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was going to suggest Crank/Cam sensor too - better to check fault codes in DME



Where are you located? Maybe somebody here can check with PIWIS or Durametric
 
  
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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cam sensor? Is that a pretty intense job? Would be superb if someone with the right reader could come and have a look - I'm based in Chessington/Kingtson Surrey.
 
  
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nicholas lawrence
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Posts: 1319
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too far for me to check, I am up in Shropshire.



Sounds like Crank Sensor - but some engines wont start if Cam Sensor is faulty too. Could you check engine 'earth' and clean the connector?


Not sure how mechanically minded you are, but a quick google search under 'images' will show you the engine 'earth' location. This happens on some cars I have worked on. Best bet is diagnostic, the AA should be able to read Engine DME codes at least, or ring a mobile mechanic asking for OBD Diagnostic fault read only.


When he has shown the fault - it may be possible he can fix same (or next) day depending on parts location. I would stick to Porsche sensor for these type of fault, if it is Crank or Cam Sensor. Ebay has cheaper sensors for sale but the magnet can fail sooner than o.e. part.



Hope that helps!
 
  
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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicholassss wrote:
Too far for me to check, I am up in Shropshire.



Sounds like Crank Sensor - but some engines wont start if Cam Sensor is faulty too. Could you check engine 'earth' and clean the connector?


Not sure how mechanically minded you are, but a quick google search under 'images' will show you the engine 'earth' location. This happens on some cars I have worked on. Best bet is diagnostic, the AA should be able to read Engine DME codes at least, or ring a mobile mechanic asking for OBD Diagnostic fault read only.


When he has shown the fault - it may be possible he can fix same (or next) day depending on parts location. I would stick to Porsche sensor for these type of fault, if it is Crank or Cam Sensor. Ebay has cheaper sensors for sale but the magnet can fail sooner than o.e. part.



Hope that helps!


Thanks very much for your help! It actually turns out I know a very good mechanic who used to work for a well known specialist Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo/Maserati (and the likes of) garage and has now just set up on his own. He immediately suggested the crank shaft sensor over the phone when we spoke and I told him the symptoms - which fills me with some confidence.

He is coming over with the code reader when I get home from work tonight. Will keep you posted!

Thanks Nicholassss

Steve
 
  
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nicholas lawrence
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Posts: 1319
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries man - let us know how you get on!



Post the error codes if you can later today.
 
  
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JohnnyDangerous
Estoril


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
Posts: 3613
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you dont have any luck I have a durametric and am pretty close to you.
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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy came over last night, and said the symptoms are that of the crank sensor.

Now I need to get hold of one today/tomorrow latest as I need the car for work on Monday - I'm in Surrey/South London. Have tried Porsche Byfleet and they cannot get one until Tuesday.

Any ideas guys of where I can get a crank sensor today or tomorrow? And does £144 + VAT sound about right?

Steve
 
  
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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyDangerous wrote:
If you dont have any luck I have a durametric and am pretty close to you.


Thank you very much! I may take you up on that soon!
 
  
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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changed the cps and still nothing.. Checked the dme (or fuel pump relay) and it seems to be clicking and priming the pump.. Car is still cranking but still not joy? Have just disconnected the battery negative, and going to leave for 10 mine to see if that has any effect..

If anyone can help, please offer up and ideas!

Steve
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8329
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read you post earlier in the week I too was going to suggest Crank Sensor as I had a similar issue but I was able to plug in straight away to diagnose this, when it was just turning over without firing. I bought a new sensor and it still didn't fire, I checked again and it was still saying sensor fault.
My next job was to test voltage at the sensor supply wiring plug next to the air oil separator, I think this should be 5v supply and the ohms should be about 8, I found I wasn't getting any voltage so I traced the wiring through the engine wiring loom to the ECU and cleaned all the terminal up on the way. When I put it all back together it fired and was fine. I think I may of had a dry joint within the wiring.
Hopefully your issue is something easy to trace but you do need to get it plugged into to check for faults.
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the other me
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 407
Location: Girona/Riga


PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 996t "died" , and I mean really died, on the motorway. Same stuff when I tried resuscitation on the hard shoulder, cranking,but no firing.

9excellence have told me it is the 1st fuel pump (as opposed to fuel pump relay) failure they have ever seen.

Maybe yours is the 2nd one ?
 
  
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Jibaro
Monza


Joined: 10 Sep 2012
Posts: 158
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the other me wrote:
My 996t "died" , and I mean really died, on the motorway. Same stuff when I tried resuscitation on the hard shoulder, cranking,but no firing.

9excellence have told me it is the 1st fuel pump (as opposed to fuel pump relay) failure they have ever seen.

Maybe yours is the 2nd one ?


Did yours happen in France??

I had similar thing happen to me week before last, and on mine the feed pipe to the fuel pump had detached. The original clip was poor and failed.
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s9ety
Newbie


Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As it stands, we are still no closer to getting this car started up. The computer showed no signs or codes when we had it plugged in. (sure it was connected and working properly as we were able to open the bonnet and spray the washer jets etc. from the computer).

So, things we are going to try tonight consist of the following;

- Even though I am convinced the car has fuel and shows quarter of a tank, will get can filled of super and put it in.
- Hook up some jump leads and try and fire it up. Even though the car is cranking fine, maybe the battery is not quite 100% there? If this doesn't work, should I try and bump start it?
- Check fuel pump? It seems this is not the issue and I can hear the pump priming on start up, and also when hooked up the computer we primed the pump via the computer? How would we go about checking the fuel pump other than this way?
- Check the connections on the CPS (however if this was the issue, we should get some faults showing? But we do not.)

What about the immobiliser or alarm? Maybe my key? I do not have another key to try, is there any way to check these things?

This is now driving me up the wall.. I am sure it is something trivial as opposed to a major mechanical problem, as surely the car should at least start up, or make an attempt to run if it was mechanical!

I am soooo open to suggestions!

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the other me
Nürburgring


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 407
Location: Girona/Riga


PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jibaro, yep, thats me. . . I guess you have been into 9e recently too, they mentioned your problem to me, I had visions of a fuel spray under the bonnet Surprised
 
  
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Roro
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Oct 2010
Posts: 6356



PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first thought when I read this was low fuel. A few years back when I had a C2S 997, I stalled it while trying to park on a slight incline. The car wouldn't restart, even though it was cranking over, and the fuel gauge said there was 1/4 tank. I didn't know what to do, but I had a Gerry can so walked over to the fuel station and filled the car with a fiver worth of fuel. Still nothing, so filled another fiver worth of fuel - and the car started. Try filling to at least half a tank then starting. The fuel gauge logic is crap. Below half a tank it guesses how much fuel is there based on your fuel consumption for the first half used... or something like that...
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nicholas lawrence
Barcelona


Joined: 10 Apr 2014
Posts: 1319
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

s9ety wrote:
Guy came over last night, and said the symptoms are that of the crank sensor.






What were the error codes please?
 
  
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