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993C2Fan
Newbie


Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Posts: 27
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: 993 Front wishbone bushes - replacement Reply with quote

My 993 is in for a service with a well known Surrey based Porsche Service Centre. They tell me that my 993 which is approaching 100k miles has split front suspension arm bushes and that they are only available integral with the wishbones at circa £1200 a pair, plus geo etc. I've seen on the forum that replacement bushes are available separately ( eg Powerflex ) and have been quoted around £620 my another Surrey based independent Porsche garage to replace said bushes with Powerflex plus do front geo. My question is - does circa £600 to replace front bushes seem excessive? Are there any other ( cheaper ) options? I'm spending a considerable sum to have the car serviced and replace all the rear heatshields/rear bumper brackets/exhaust brackets etc so I unfortunately don't have limitless funds. An thoughts much appreciated, Neil
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993 C2 Vario 1995 Midnight Blue
 
  
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Citori
Kyalami


Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 1816
Location: Rural Essex..

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello
The answer to your question depends on some variables.
Does the £620 include the cost of the bushes and the VAT?
Replacing the bushes can be a time consuming job. If the price includes the bushes, say £150, that leaves £420 for labour. If you reckon about £75 an hour that's around 5.5 hours'ish. then there's the alignment check Depends whether you think that's a reasonable amount of time but seems fair if it's an all in price.

I did my own bushes and put in Walrods, cost me about £80, but it took me more than 5.5 hours. There again, I'm an amateur.

I didn't think complete new arms cost £1200 a pair, seems a bit dear.
Give the OPC a call and ask them the current price.
With complete wishbones it's a simple job to swap them over but they will need to be re-aligned which is an extra cost.

One tip I can offer, if you have the wishbones replaced, ask for the old ones back. Even worn out wishbone arms go for up to £150 on Ebay, at least that would help a little with the cost.
ATB
Steve.

Edit: Personally I would go with poly bushes every time. Cheaper to do and less danger of them having to be done again in a few years (or less) I'm really pleased with my Walrods, They made a big difference to the way the car drives.
Gert Carnewal will also sell you some exchange wishbones fitted with Walrod bushes for 225 euros exchange per pair. Check out his website.
http://www.carnewal.com/
_________________
Previously enjoyed Porsche:
1996 C2 Coupe.
1983 911 Carrera Targa Sport.
1981 911SC Sport.
1978 911SC.
1970 911E.

I have CDO. It’s like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order, LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE..

Aircooled or nothin....

Last edited by Citori on Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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rogttr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 262
Location: West Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hartech (used to, and prob still) do refurbished lower wishbones. £135+VAT each in 2012. You trade yours in (can be done after receipt of refurbished ones)
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rogttr
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 262
Location: West Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See here
http://www.hartech.org/porsche_996_997_Boxster_reconditioned_parts_for_sale.html
http://www.hartech.org/porsche_996_997_Boxster_reconditioned_parts_for_sale.html
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Dream911
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2411
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hartech option is the only option to consider unless you want to go with the hard poly bushes. What the hell is your indie doing quoting £1200. That's very bad form (unless of course your indie is an OPC which I could understand).
 
  
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berni29
Watkins Glen


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2175
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

You can get replacement rubber bushes from Elephant Racing in the US. They are identical in design to the originals and come in RS or standard hardness. The cutouts are there to change geometry under braking. I very much like polybushes and have used them many times, but not on the front of my 993. I think the original design is far superior.

I pressed them in and out myself, but it was a real palava. I also did all the rear bushes at the same time as well as replacing the whole suspension, so it was part of a larger job.

Here is an ER one. They also have them for the other end of the arm. And the rears.



All the best

Berni
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993 C2 Tip 1994 187k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris.
 
  
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Citori
Kyalami


Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 1816
Location: Rural Essex..

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dream911 wrote:
The hartech option is the only option to consider unless you want to go with the hard poly bushes. What the hell is your indie doing quoting £1200. That's very bad form (unless of course your indie is an OPC which I could understand).


I have Walrod poly bushes in my car and they are not "hard" at all. They give a ride quality equal to, if not better than the original. Plus if you go to Gert you can get an exchange set of wishbones fitted with Walrods for less than £200.
Worth considering, certainly beats £1200 being quoted.
_________________
Previously enjoyed Porsche:
1996 C2 Coupe.
1983 911 Carrera Targa Sport.
1981 911SC Sport.
1978 911SC.
1970 911E.

I have CDO. It’s like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order, LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE..

Aircooled or nothin....
 
  
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9MLS
Imola


Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 779



PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Complete wishbones are £291 each + vat from OPC

Walrod bushes are available in the UK, but dont come with any metal work, unlike the Powerflex ones which do.
 
  
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Tycho
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 277
Location: West Yorks

1995 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had mine done with Powerflex bushes last year as they came up on the PPI. I got them done by friends who I describe “old fashioned craftsmen mechanics” not Porsche Indies but people I trust implicitly. I had done my research into the options & wanted to go the polybush route. When I asked if they were able to get the old bushes out & press in the new poly ones and was given a reassuring smile & told to leave it to them. Job done promptly & a lot less the OP’s quote. They also did my chassis legs but that’s another story.
 
  
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993C2Fan
Newbie


Joined: 04 Sep 2011
Posts: 27
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Wishbones Reply with quote

Many thanks to all of you for your replies. In the end I decided to go for the Hartech option of refurbished wishbones with new poly bushes. The cost was reasonable ( £135 each plus vat, plus £75 each deposit for return of the original wishbones - refundable of course. Plus £35 courier ) and I decided that it was better to have shiny clean refurbished wishbones, guaranteed for two years, than to have the garage try to push new bushes into the existing wishbones, which would ultimately be more time consuming and probably expensive to do. And this is only the front end which has had all the work done! Next stop the rear end but I need to rob a bank first! Laughing
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 878
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add to this.

I bought Hartech refurbed front wishbones in the summer of 2015 when I replaced all suspension parts.

They have covered 18K mles ....... and are shot. There hasn't been any hard/trackday driving.

I'd upload the vid showing the wear but its 45MB.

Just booking it in now to have new wishbones. Stuff this refurb/insert route for me.
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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AVI_8
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 115
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We’re the Hartech bushes poly bushes?
Years ago I replaced the suspension bushes on a BMW 5 series with power flex poly bushes, the control arm powerflex bushes lasted 6 months around 10,000 miles, these were the ones which took the most cornering forces.

I presumed that the reason they were shot so quickly was because it was a heavy car. Definitely put me off poly bushes.

As someone mentioned elephant racing make copies of the original bush $318 for a full set of standard and $358 for the uprated RS equivalents, obviously plus the bend over and get shafted up the rear UK import tax and VAT.

They do get good reviews though from what I’ve read on Rennlist though.
 
  
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AVI_8
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 115
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wozy you’ve already had the hard work done to your wishbones IE. Getting the old bushes out as that’s the time consuming labour intensive part.

If your currant ones are poly they can be removed in minutes as they aren’t press fit.
New elephant racing bushes would just press into your arms and would make them as good or better than new. Probably for a fraction of the cost of new wishbones.

You don’t even need a press to fit new bushes, 3 hands and a decent Vice should work fine, should only take minutes.
 
  
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AVI_8
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 115
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We’re the Hartech bushes poly bushes?
Years ago I replaced the suspension bushes on a BMW 5 series with power flex poly bushes, the control arm powerflex bushes lasted 6 months around 10,000 miles, these were the ones which took the most cornering forces.

I presumed that the reason they were shot so quickly was because it was a heavy car. Definitely put me off poly bushes.

As someone mentioned elephant racing make copies of the original bush $318 for a full set of standard and $358 for the uprated RS equivalents, obviously plus the bend over and get shafted up the rear UK import tax and VAT.

They do get good reviews though from what I’ve read on Rennlist though.
 
  
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AVI_8
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 115
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems my posts are coming up twice, I only pressed submit once.
No I’m not trying to increase my post count!
 
  
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 878
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, no I bought reconditioned wishbones with Id assume oe rubber bushes, def not poly bushes. They have failed big time, totally kaput. The rear section rubber of the wishbone is fine, just the front section that are knackered.

Anyway I’ve decided to replace both wishbones with new Porsche parts, as I can’t believe new parts wouldn’t last at least 50K miles, the refurb ones I’ve now realised covered only 13K miles, not the initial 18K I first thought.

My mechanic mate recons unless the plastic or other rubber replacements include the sleeve that's press fitted into the wishbone, then replacements in whatever material are pretty compromised. (It seems most ‘repair/replacement’ kits do not include this metal sleeve) .

I tend to agree after what’s happened. After all the Hartech refurbs cost £350 inc delivery and VAT plus fitting. I just assumed they’d be somewhere near as good as the originals in use. Obviously in my case at least, it was a complete false economy.

The cars had an easy life since they were fitted. No trackdays, heavy use etc.
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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AVI_8
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 115
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wozy that’s very unfortunate, those bushes were clearly inferior to only last such a short time.
The ones I was mentioning were these

https://www.elephantracing.com/porsche/964/rubber-bushings-for-964/

As you can see if you scroll down they come complete, the bolt goes through the solid shaft in the middle; not sure if that’s the part you think was missing with your replacements.
Whatever you get fitted make sure that the suspension is compressed when the bolts are tightened when you get the new ones fitted.
 
  
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AVI_8
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 115
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wozy that’s very unfortunate, those bushes were clearly inferior to only last such a short time.
The ones I was mentioning were these

https://www.elephantracing.com/porsche/964/rubber-bushings-for-964/

As you can see if you scroll down they come complete, the bolt goes through the solid shaft in the middle; not sure if that’s the part you think was missing with your replacements.
Whatever you get fitted make sure that the suspension is compressed when the bolts are tightened when you get the new ones fitted.
 
  
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 878
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AVI_8 wrote:
Hi Wozy that’s very unfortunate, those bushes were clearly inferior to only last such a short time.
The ones I was mentioning were these

https://www.elephantracing.com/porsche/964/rubber-bushings-for-964/

As you can see if you scroll down they come complete, the bolt goes through the solid shaft in the middle; not sure if that’s the part you think was missing with your replacements.
Whatever you get fitted make sure that the suspension is compressed when the bolts are tightened when you get the new ones fitted.


Hi, yes it seems those are the jobies. $90 dollars per side just for the front of the wishbones plus carriage plus import tax and VAT would end up costing a wee bit though, and then you’ve the cost of fitting them.

I’ve heard great things about Elephant Racing and of I had the dosh or the inclination I’d be having the $650.00 complete kit. That looks fantastic Smile

I’ve spent circa £8-9K replacing my complete suspension, the only damn part I didn’t go new was the bloody wishbones. Like I’ve stated somewhere else, il go new this time on them though. Very Happy
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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AVI_8
Silverstone


Joined: 19 Jan 2014
Posts: 115
Location: Prestwick


PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And after spending that amount you’ll have a car which handles like new and that’s worth a lot! And hopefully it will Thumb
 
  
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