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996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula

Stuart

Zandvoort
Joined
16 Sep 2007
Messages
5,151
So it was time to change my front discs after 2 years, 19000 miles and numerous track days. After many (many) nights of internet research I decided to try Alcon, a controversial move away from Performance Friction. PFC were announced as partner and official supplier of Porsche Motorsport for the 2013 season onwards. All Porsche 911 GT3 Cup (Type 991) cars will be fitted with a new PFC package formulated specifically for the new GT3 Cup (Type 991). However this partnership will take quite some time to filter their race technology through to the road/ track selection available to me/ us.

What I'm trying to ascertain is what is potentially the best set up for for the 996 GT3 without going all out 380 Brembo (they wouldn't fit inside my 18" wheels anyway). To set the scene I'm also no driving/ set up supremo who can utilise every ounce, but I do want the best available for my needs and experience.

So while all new GT3 Cup cars were being supplied with the latest (and lightest) technology available, for me, with a 2004 GT3, my next step was away from PFC.

Hence the search turned to Alcon.

Alcon are renowned for durability within the track day field and although more expensive than others the cost delta when factored against 20-25 track days shows comparative value for money. Added to that is the increased braking torque gained through radius increase and this was a definite modification I wanted to test.

The Alcon blue box, the male equivalent of Tiffany blue...

IMG_9617.jpg


IMG_9618.jpg


Quality of manufacture and assembly by JZM is first class complete with hand scribed side information on the inner surface.

IMG_9620.jpg


Weight of Alcon disc and hat assembly are 9.5Kg per side, standard Porsche OEM drilled are 11.61Kg.

Here you can see the size difference between Performance Friction Direct Drive 350mm disc assembly and the 362mm Alcon unit.

IMG_9628.jpg


IMG_9629.jpg


The increased diameter from 350mm to 362mm means the calliper needs to be moved further out by 6mm which is done by 4x machined aluminium spacers. To compliment this JZM include 4x longer 95mm M12 calliper bolts.

Care should be taken when fitting the spacers as they are sized differently for upper and lower calliper holes. 4 washers are also supplied which fit between bolt head and calliper. Originally this was slightly confusing but after speaking with JZM and others it was evident that these do require fitting.

Assembly fitted on wheel carrier.

IMG_9624.jpg


With Calliper fitted.

IMG_9625.jpg


They certainly look the part with the wheels back on.

IMG_9637.jpg


Ready for action...

photo-31.jpg


Updates to come on impressions and options.

:thumbs:
 
Stu

I've done the same last August, ditched the PCF for the 362mm Alcons. Never had an issue with the PFC and found them to last and perform well. So fare done 2 TDs on the Alcons and can say I can't tell feel any difference. It will be interested if you can.

Jon
 
Looks great Stu, the Alcons do seem to last ages. The S grooves are 1mm deep so fairly straight forward to see the wear, when the grooves start to fade the discs are nearly done. What pads?
 
Looking fwd to seeing how you get on with them Stu :thumb:
 
Is it me or the Alcons are not floating discs?
Have you changed the rear as well?
What pads did you go for?
 
996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula: PART 2

In Part 1 of brake updates I went through my recent decision to move from Performance Friction discs to Alcon.

At the time I was still using the Performance Friction 08 compound pads on the front and rear and had previously been very happy with that pad compound on PF discs.

A trip to Spa straight after fitting confirmed that the pad/ disc combination was still very pleasing with good modulation and bite. At no point in the day did the car throw up any fade or confidence issues.

Once back in the UK I inspected the wear progress and noticed the Alcons did appear to be wearing faster than the the PF combination. Surface cracks had formed even with appropriate cool down laps and there was evidence of advanced wear on effectively new rotors. On advice from Steve @ JZM he suggested a move to Pagid RS29 as the PF pads will 'eat' the Alcons. The RS29/ Alcon package is a well developed combination and one which other users have had very good results in both performance and longevity.

Here's the promotional info from Pagid:
http://www.brakes-pads-discs.co.uk/pagid/products/rs29-yellow-ceramic-based.php

From internet research the PF08 compound is known to create more heat with use which results in increased disc wear, possibly validating what I witnessed.

I tried to find optimum operating temperature ranges for both pads but could only find information for Pagid. It seems PF only give characteristics not actual data, would be interested if anyone has actual temp ranges quoted, nothing is available on their website(s).

Pagid:

pad-temperaters.gif



Additionally, the pad area of Pagid is marginally larger than the PF, this is mainly due to the PF pad being narrower in depth to allow for the PF rotor bell.

PF:

7819.gif


RS29:

PAGID2707.jpg



Therefore a quick call to JZM parts department and a couple of days later I had a full set of Pagid RS29 pads in hand and ready to install.

pagid_rs29_box-1.jpg


pagid_rs_29_box_open_2-1.jpg


First step was to take the PF08 pads out and rub down the discs to remove any contamination. I won't go in to pad swap DIYs as there is plenty of info available and it's very easy.

Once discs had been prepared the pads were installed and everything checked over before wheels reinstalled.

Fronts:

pagid_rs29_front_fitted.jpg


Rears (with Girodisc 350mm):

pagid_rs29_rear_fitted-1.jpg


pagid_rs_29_rear_fitted_02.jpg


Unlike the PF the RS29 do require bedding in so straight after fitting I followed the Pagid procedure found here:

http://www.brakes-pads-discs.co.uk/pagid/bedding-in-guidance.php


First track day with the new set up is Silverstone so will report on initial comparisons.

:thumb:
 
Re: 996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula: PART 2

Stuart said:
On advice from Steve @ JZM he suggested a move to Pagid RS29 as the PF pads will 'eat' the Alcons.

That's interesting because we've found that on the race Boxsters, the RS29 pads have been very kind to the standard discs we've been using (I've currently got Sebros on my 986). Admittedly the cars quite a bit lighter than a road-going GT3.

Chris.
 
Re: 996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula: PART 2

Stuart said:
Unlike the PF the RS29 do require bedding in...

Sorry, that's not correct. All new brakes require bedding in, including the PF range.
 
Re: 996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula: PART 2

spyderman said:
Stuart said:
On advice from Steve @ JZM he suggested a move to Pagid RS29 as the PF pads will 'eat' the Alcons.

That's interesting because we've found that on the race Boxsters, the RS29 pads have been very kind to the standard discs we've been using (I've currently got Sebros on my 986). Admittedly the cars quite a bit lighter than a road-going GT3.

Chris.

Isnt that what Stuart is saying, RS 29 is kinder?
 
Re: 996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula: PART 2

Senoj said:
spyderman said:
Stuart said:
On advice from Steve @ JZM he suggested a move to Pagid RS29 as the PF pads will 'eat' the Alcons.

That's interesting because we've found that on the race Boxsters, the RS29 pads have been very kind to the standard discs we've been using (I've currently got Sebros on my 986). Admittedly the cars quite a bit lighter than a road-going GT3.

Chris.

Isnt that what Stuart is saying, RS 29 is kinder?

Sorry - quite correct. Misreadification.
 
Re: 996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula: PART 2

spyderman said:
Stuart said:
Unlike the PF the RS29 do require bedding in...

Sorry, that's not correct. All new brakes require bedding in, including the PF range.

Not according to PF website.

Edit to add - actually, can't find that on PF, it's other forums which all state PF are 'race ready' and no need to bed. PF themselves state a bedding procedure, I stand corrected...

PF website said:
Race ReadyTM Heat Treatment provides immediate stopping power with limited bedding
 
Re: 996 GT3 Brakes, improving on the Porsche formula: PART 2

Stuart said:
... From internet research the PF08 compound is known to create more heat with use which results in increased disc wear, possibly validating what I witnessed.

I can't understand why you would choose to use inferior pads. The laws of physics are pretty clear: brakes are converting energy from one form into another (velocity into heat); if there's less heat, then there's less retardation going on in the same time period. You don't get heat unless that energy is being converted somehow.

The holy grail of low brake wear & neck-snapping brake performance simply doesn't exist - if you want to stop quickly from high speed lap after lap, brake wear is the cost you have to pay.

I've moved onto PF11 pads now btw. I tried RS29 last year & they lasted 6 days on slicks; iow, the pads were wearing faster than the discs. PF11 are already up to 8 days with probably another 4 left in them. The discs will last for 2 full sets of pads and maybe a bit more.

Given that wear has to occur somewhere, it's then a choice as to what balance you want to strike between pads & discs. With RS29s costing ~£500 a set, I'd prefer to only need 2 sets of PF11 at ~£385ea per £1K set of discs rather than 4 or 6 sets of RS29s. The numbers simply don't stack up for me any other way.
 
I am running Girodiscs . Half price compare to the eye watering Alcon !!
With PFC 8 it is great. For more bite but less modulation PFC01 is even better
Don't get me wrong Alcon are top quality but there are other products on the market with similar quality and much cheaper.
 
Cheapest place to buy PF pads anyone?
 
quattrosteph said:
I am running Girodiscs . Half price compare to the eye watering Alcon !!
With PFC 8 it is great. For more bite but less modulation PFC01 is even better
Don't get me wrong Alcon are top quality but there are other products on the market with similar quality and much cheaper.

dont even get me started on Girodiscs, a cost effective alternative but in the end no benefit from the size, just a disc with some groves, not much of an upgrade in IMHO
 

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