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apw2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: The single biggest reason Red Bull dominates Formula 1 Reply with quote

Stumbled across this article

Quote:
Formula 1 fans were treated to a very entertaining race in Korea on Sunday. Did you catch the race? There was plenty of incident,. but once again Sebastian Vettel lined up in pole position and was in front from start to finish. It was another masterful drive from the German.

In fact Vettel’s dominance in recent seasons invites the usual questions about whether it’s the car or the driver who should take the lion’s share of credit. Vettel is certainly a brilliant driver who is that crucial tenth of a second quicker than his Red Bull Racing team mate Mark Webber. And the quality of the car is clearly important.

But there is another crucial factor behind this success: big data. And there is a fascinating story here about how Red Bull has used big data to steal a march on everyone else in Formula 1. It’s a story that demonstrates the power of what is now one of the most exciting and disruptive forces in society today – make sure you don’t miss out!

It’s all down to a few men in a room in Milton Keynes

The Red Bull team is most visible during pit-stops. The mechanics can remove all four wheels, replace them and even adjust the front wing in 2.5 seconds. Occasionally, human or mechanical error conspires to spoil this carefully choreographed display of teamwork and the race can be lost. Wheel nuts won’t come off or go on, sometimes a tyre gets left in the garage. It can make for dramatic television.

But there is another aspect to teamwork that we don’t see on TV. Without it, Vettel’s race would be a lot more difficult, and I’m sure he would have had less success. Red Bull’s cars take to the track laden with around a hundred sensors. Everything conceivable is monitored: pressures, loadings, temperatures, parts wear, fuel use. Some of this telemetry analyses driver performance such as braking and acceleration at specific points on the track; information that will help Vettel improve and go even faster.

But a lot of the 100 gigabytes of data that are transmitted by the car each race concern the status of the car itself. Occasionally we hear Vettel’s race engineer advising him to try and cool his brakes or “look after” his right front tyre. Even though top drivers are super-sensitive and can “feel” minute details about their car’s performance, data from the sensors provides objective information to the team. They no longer have to rely entirely on a driver’s experience and intuition when the race is underway.

This real time data is so large and complex that it can’t be processed by the guys you see sitting in front of screens at the pit wall during the race. That’s where Vettel’s race engineer relays instructions from; but the heavy lifting is done elsewhere. While the race is underway in Korea , the telemetry is analysed in real time by up to 24 specialists sitting in a data room in Milton Keynes. It might not be as glamorous as hanging out in the paddock at Monaco, but it’s very effective.

A good example of their work was the final race last year in Brazil where Vettel narrowly won the championship. It was a wet weather race with plenty of incidents, one of which involved Vettel damaging his car in a crash with Bruno Senna which sent him to the back of the field. The normal response would have been to return to the pits so the mechanics could inspect the damage and replace broken parts. Because of Red Bull’s real time data analysis capability, the team were able to keep him out on the track and assess the car’s performance and safety while still racing. They decided he could stay out and he went on to finish sixth; which was just enough to clinch the drivers’ championship.

A new industrial revolution is underway

I have written a lot recently about the investment opportunities in internet communication and big data. In fact, my latest issue of Red Hot Penny Shares makes two new recommendations in exactly these industries. These are real themes and they are happening today. Red Bull is harnessing them to transform the way in which a top Formula 1 team goes racing. Formula 1 is at the cutting edge of new technology adoption but where it leads, the mainstream soon follows. Just last week we saw Monsanto announce it would invest a billion dollars a year in data generation.

Even at Red Bull Racing though, it’s not ultra high-tech everywhere you look. Many say the most important individual in the team isn’t Vettel but Adrian Newey. He is the celebrated designer of many top F1 cars over the years including the recent Red Bulls. His main design tool remains a pencil and an A4 notepad on which he sketches his ideas. It’s reassuring to think that there is one key element of Formula 1 where human ingenuity and equipment costing less than a pound still have a role to play!

• This article is taken from our free twice-weekly small-cap investment email, The Penny Sleuth. Sign up to The Penny Sleuth here.


http://moneyweek.com/big-data-red-bull-formula-1/
 
  
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Bradders
Nürburgring


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the other F1 teams don't do this ??

I thought it was cos he's the best driver in the best car Dont know
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PeterS
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That still doesn't explain the difference between SV and MW, unless SV gets the best technicians and MW the apprentices.
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Bradders
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MW certainly gets the duff car !
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FLETCHER
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My older brother is one of the tech boffins at redbull. He started of with paul stewart and has worked his way up to a proper nerd, he was good mates with darrio franchitti when he was in f3 , i keep meaning to ask if hes still in contact ( after the crash ) Dont know
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pzero
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much difference would 28lbs less of body weight make to lap times? Question
 
  
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Roro
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I reckon Vettel and Chilton need to swap places for a couple of races and see what happens. Would Marussia come first or RB? Question
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FLETCHER
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pzero , just asked the man himself and got a answer , its not very technical , no big numbers just.
"less than a second prob"
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLETCHER wrote:
Pzero , just asked the man himself and got a answer , its not very technical , no big numbers just.
"less than a second prob"


Got to love this forum, thanks FLETCHER. How's that for quick access from where it matters.
Thumb

So, less than a second a lap, that would make a difference when qualifying for example. The grid places, often enough, are decided by fractions of seconds. If given equal cars and
eequal driver ability then size, or rather weight, matters, and during the course of a race it all adds up. However fine a margin the driver weight advantage would mean a saving in fuel, however small, but still a saving?
But I don't think SV is winning by the margins he is because he is lighter than most of the other drivers.
He is in a better car, he is a better driver than most of the other drivers, (Alonso, Hamilton and Kimi IMO if in the RB and not SV would achieve similar results) and as mentioned at the top of the thread, Adrian Newry does make a difference. Put it all together and we get what we see.
 
  
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apw2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pzero wrote:
How much difference would 28lbs less of body weight make to lap times? Question


Quote:
Webber wants higher minimum car weight
By Javier Parra on 27 Mar 2009, 06:02

Feeling at a disadvantage, Mark Webber is calling out for a higher minimum car weight limit. While being one of the larger drivers in the Formula One grid, he shares among a few others the disadvantage of weighing a lot more than drivers such as Nick Heidfeld and Felipe Massa. And with KERS adding roughly 30kg's to the overall weight of the car, there is less free ballast to be moved around.

In an interview with the official Formula One website, Webber responded to whether increasing the weight limit would be a good idea: "Of course it would. And it would not be unfair to do that. The smaller drivers don’t get a disadvantage but at the moment the bigger guys do, so it would only be fair."

"And it would save a lot of money, too. At the moment the teams are spending money to make the cars lighter and by increasing the minimum weight to a sensible number, the teams would not have to spend money on saving weight. The weight limit is incredibly aggressive! I am not Pavarotti and still it’s not easy."

"What a lot of rubbish," he says about the presumable strenght advantage bigger drivers have, "It’s not a strength advantage as all the guys on the grid are strong."


http://www.gptoday.com/details/view/297783/Webber_wants_higher_minimum_car_weight/?fscomments
 
  
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Shurv
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Bull are a one driver team,with a solid no 2 driver.Ferarri did it for the Schumacher years and look what they achieved. The car is designed around the lead driver and his driving style,the other guy has to make do with it.The team know that with the star driver winning everything they'll get the publicity their sponsors want, and the solid no 2 will ensure they are frontrunners in the constructors. A simple but proven way. 100% of the effort goes to Vettel, as demonstrated by the fact that the only car that has issues is Webbers.If I was RB, I'd do the same. it's a business after all,and drivers are expendable.
 
  
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PeterS
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLETCHER wrote:
Pzero , just asked the man himself and got a answer , its not very technical , no big numbers just.
"less than a second prob"


So it's probably fair to assume that Webber is a far superior driver, because he overs ones that. Perhaps he has to take on less fuel.

I wonder what the weight on the starting grid are for all the car/ driver combinations, particularly SV v MW. It won't be as much as 28lbs, but could be significant.

I believe they say the weight of a lap of fuel costs 1/10 sec per lap.
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davidjf7
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the cars not all the same starting weight though?

My understanding was that they bring them up to the minimum weight (c700Kg?) using ballast, so the only issue with driver weight/size is packaging and how much ballast you can use to affect the car's dynamics Question
 
  
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apw2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenson Button has suggested that the minimum weight of 2014 cars should be increased. Fear is that taller, heavier drivers could be handicapped by new rules

Quote:
Jenson Button has suggested that the minimum weight of next year's Formula 1 cars should be increased so as not to handicap taller, heavier drivers.

As things stand, the minimum weight will be increased from 642kg to 690kg in 2014 in line with the new V6 turbo engine formula that also mandates enhanced energy recovery systems. However, that increase will not make things easier for bigger drivers.

If anything, the opposite will be the case. An explanation lies in the fact that F1 cars are built underweight, with driver weight and ballast used to bring them up to the legal minimum. Yet because the ancillaries associated with the new power units are expected to be heavier than had earlier been thought, the anticipation is that six footers such as Button and Nico Hulkenberg will have even less flexibility setting up their cars.

Moving ballast can help improve a car's balance and the more of it there is, the bigger the potential gain.

Little wonder, then, that Button thinks next year's minimum weight should be increased by ten kilos. "I'm 74, 74.5 kilos with my kit and I struggle to meet the weight limit - I have done for the last three years," the McLaren driver said on Thursday. "There's certain fitness training that I have to do and parts that I can't do: I can't build muscle; I can't eat carbohydrates because I have to be a set weight.

"It's going to get worse next year as well. Next year, I don't think any team will have any ballast really on the car. It is very tricky for a taller driver.

"It's not that it hurts you over a lap because you set the car up around yourself. But you lose a lot of tools to adjust the car - you can't move the weight distribution because you're so limited."

A weight of 60-65kg is seen as ideal by designers but not all drivers have the requisite build. Hulkenberg (78kg) is certainly not in possession of a pint-sized frame, with Button reckoning it can cost between two and three tenths of a second per lap.

"Every year, we start the season with ballast. Throughout the year, because you add parts to the car, the car puts more weight on," he said.

"Whereas at the start of next year, I think every team is not going to have ballast on the car - and it's only going to get worse during the season.

"It does hurt the heavier drivers and it's very unfair to say we'll lose weight, because some of us can't lose any more weight; you need to have skin on your bones and a little bit of muscle to drive a Formula 1 car."

Button added: "People don't realise the difference a kilo of weight can make, even if it is to change the balance of the car. It's 30 milliseconds per kilo and around most circuits ten kilos is about three tenths per lap.

"If you're four kilos overweight, it's a lot. It's almost two tenths."

Button said the matter would be discussed at a GPDA meeting ahead of Sunday's race at the Korean International Circuit.

"It should be easy for us to stick another ten kilos of weight on the car; I don't understand why we can't talk about that. But maybe it's because we haven't talked about it - we haven't asked for the cars to be heavier," he added.

"It's one of the easiest things to put right. It could save a driver's career."


http://formula1.about.com/od/drivers/a/Driver_Weights.htm
 
  
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pzero
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting.
 
  
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FLETCHER
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only other bit of info i can help with is . At 30 mph there is enough down force to drive the car upside down.
This might be a problem for the heavier drivers because they would fall out of the car first..
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bazhart
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want anyone to think that I am assuming some similarity between our minute inexperienced race team and Red Bull - but funnily enough there are interesting similarities.

When I was designing and building racing motorcycle engines - I had no external help so had to keep masses of data on test results to help work out answers that I assumed people with more experience already had. But I found that analysing things afresh provided more reliable information than others with years of hands on experiences.

Similarly when several years later I happened to find myself trying to work out what an aerospace company that kept almost going bust was doing wrong I used computerised data collection to find the secret which then easily enabled us to turn the business around.

Getting back to motor racing - when we decided to build our first racing car for the Porsche Club Championship in 2012 - we had no experience of motor racing but lots of engineering and technical ability and relied on data acquisition and analysis on simple spreadsheet systems to work through alternative settings and their influences - finally developing a massive "handling" spreadsheet that worked for us - so well that in 2013 we won the Porsche Club Class 1 Championship and Team Trophy - in only our second season of racing with our own cars. Furthermore we did not build cars that had been raced by Porsche themselves before nor anyone else in that model spec - so we didn't simply copy what others had found to work over many years with 911's and 968's etc but had to work from first principles.

The other similarity is that by luck we found a local driver with similar exceptional ability compared to his fellow competitors in Tom Bradshaw and the result has been dominating the series all year raising questions about the contribution of the car and/or the driver (and resulting in the car carrying success ballast to try and reduce the winning margins and various arguments about the fairness of that etc).

So although we are laughably amateur and minute in comparison to F1 - I can honestly say that without our own reliance on data acquisition and analysis by us - we would not have managed to get the cars to handle so well that our brilliant young driver could exploit their limits so well and I do believe that the original focus of this thread was right and reveals the secret for Red Bull - a great driver and a lot of data analysis.

How I wish we had the funds to carry more sensors ourselves and then carry out more analysis - for in every other way our racing is little different - adjusting for roll, understeer, oversteer, lack of grip or premature tyre wear. I would love to be able to analyse the suspension acceleration rates and resulting pitch and roll etc through sensors rather than cable ties and measurement - but we cannot afford any more at present.

It is a mammoth subject for a small self funded team but it is the solution as far as we are concerned and we intend to do as much as we possibly can in the future to mirror what it seems Red Bull also do - as it definitely worked for us.

The days when success can be achieved with experience of random or even intelligent adjustments without technical data capture and analysis seem to us to be over.

I was told earlier in the season by a very experienced traditional engineer that I am "far too technical" in my approach to handling solutions - I wonder what he thinks now that his cars have finished behind ours despite the extra weight we were forced to carry!0

Just my small contribution form our experiences for those who may be interested.

Baz
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