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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2969
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:01 am    Post subject: Starter Motor .. Again! Reply with quote

... though I shouldn’t complain, I last changed the starter motor in ‘08 !

But it’s most likely on the blink again, failing to turn over when hot, but working fine once cool.

My question is, where’s the best place to go for the motor, and best brand?
I went ECP and Bosch last time, are there other options?

And by the way, the price has more than doubled since last time. Rolling Eyes
_________________
'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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Les Richards
Monza


Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 175
Location: Harlow, Essex.


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:51 pm    Post subject: Starter Motor Reply with quote

Had mine changed in May as occasionally it just clicked and was getting worse. Probably the solenoid but I'm not sure you can get just that part. Unless you can repair the solenoid yourself it's most likely cheaper just to have a new motor fitted.

Looked on ECP/CarParts4Less and possibly a few other sites but was confused as there seemed to be more than one for my model.

The Indie got three types delivered as he didn't know either until he took the old one out. Fortunately, he's got a sale or return agreement; not sure we'd have the same arrangement, so unless you are confident of the type fitted to yours, be careful before ordering!

Price, if I remember, was something around £500 but he let me have it at his price, in the region of £300.
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Les Richards

993
Polar Silver
5152 MU
 
  
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decgraham
Barcelona


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 1359
Location: Spain


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I found on the net a company that does refurbished units, both Starter motors and Alternators :

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=110986&highlight=starter+motor plus

Another post for Starter Motor issues for you Thumb

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=107248&highlight=starter+motor

One of the members on here actually followed up and ordered and paid for an Alternator and all went well for him.

http://www.sahibs.com/ (no affiliation by the way)

Got to be worth a call, they are showing an exchange unit for £142.40

http://www.sahibs.com/products/sae/S1427.html

Good luck.

ATB Smile
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1995 993 C2 Cab TipS in Guards Red
 
  
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Gazc2
Kyalami


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1982
Location: Perthshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also used these guys on a couple of occasions recently and had good service they will also rebuild your own unit

https://www.westlancsautoelectrics.co.uk/#
_________________
2007 997 Turbo & 924s in progress
1990 964 C2
1989 3.2 targa
1987 3.2 Cab
1986 3.3 Turbo
1986 944 2.5 (later fitted with a 2.7 after wife went scuba diving in a flood and popped a piston through the block)
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12898
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Out of interest have you changed the bare earth strap from the battery terminal to the body ?

Outside chance but I had issues with the 964 that I'd get nothing when warm sometimes. Completely dead as if a big draw on the battery was compromised by weak earth. I changed the old neg earth strap and no further issues Dont know
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AP90
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 377
Location: Cornwall UK


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My starter motor is fine when cold, once warm appears to kick out too early if that makes sense and then takes a few attempts to start, not great but more of an irritation than a real problem..............so far

I think it may just need a good clean

Williams Crawford quoted 1156 plus VAT for the Porsche unit and around £300 for Bosch and 150 for Hella, not sure about a core charge

Please let us know how you get on
 
  
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wilsonny
Monza


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Posts: 191
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

design911 sell a new Bosch unit (not exchange) at a reasonable price.. its the same unit as for 996 and later.. fits perfect and is slightly shorter and lighter so fitting is significantly easier. turns over mega quick.
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1996 C2 manual
 
  
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2969
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the replies,
Yes Zingo I’ve changed my batt earth strap in the last few years, and the battery came up to charge fine after I’d plugged it back into the conditioner so it’s most likely the starter.
_________________
'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 736
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilsonny wrote:
design911 sell a new Bosch unit (not exchange) at a reasonable price.. its the same unit as for 996 and later.. fits perfect and is slightly shorter and lighter so fitting is significantly easier. turns over mega quick.

Thanks for the info.

1. Are there any drawbacks whatsoever of it being 'slightly shorter?
2. BOSCH unit is £285+VAT, HELLA unit is £150+VAT: is it fair to assume BOSCH would've been the original Porsche supplier?
3. Any idea how many hours it would take an indy to remove/fit?
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Last edited by ch3tman on Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2969
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For info,I’ve ordered (reluctantly) from ECP ..
Bosch Starter motor .. With discount , £200 odd, plus £168 core exchange fee.
_________________
'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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ballcock
Sepang


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 2969
Location: Dublin

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ ch3tman, Bosch were the OE supplier.
I’ve been told its a bit of a b1tch to swap out as it sits on top of the gearbox (?) and has to be removed by Braille Razz so expect a few hours labour.

Apparently the position of the motor makes it one of the few weak points of the 993. Hot air getting blown at it, especially when sitting in traffic. Electrics don’t like that!
_________________
'96 Iris C2 vario manual coupe, Koni FZD's/M033's RSR's and HID's.
‘98 Ocean blue 996 C2 Tip pressed into daily service.

Ex '83 W460 LWB G Wagen updated with OM602 engine and 6 speed 'box
Ex. '99 996 C2 manual coupe.
 
  
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Les Richards
Monza


Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 175
Location: Harlow, Essex.


PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further to my earlier reply, the chap who did mine said that the fixings could be difficult to remove with the possibility of one in particular just turning with a spanner on it rather than undoing. The ref to Braille is probably accurate. Without a lift it's more than difficult.
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Les Richards

993
Polar Silver
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 736
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ballcock wrote:
@ ch3tman, Bosch were the OE supplier.
I’ve been told its a bit of a b1tch to swap out as it sits on top of the gearbox (?) and has to be removed by Braille Razz so expect a few hours labour.

Thanks ballcock thumbsup. It's been on the to-do list for a while along with the earth strap. As mentioned by many, both are clearly a weak point on the car and appears to be the cause of various issues, so will get it done before either completely fails. Another labour intensive item...Rolling Eyes great...
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wilsonny
Monza


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Posts: 191
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch3tman wrote:
ballcock wrote:
@ ch3tman, Bosch were the OE supplier.
I’ve been told its a bit of a b1tch to swap out as it sits on top of the gearbox (?) and has to be removed by Braille Razz so expect a few hours labour.

Thanks ballcock thumbsup. It's been on the to-do list for a while along with the earth strap. As mentioned by many, both are clearly a weak point on the car and appears to be the cause of various issues, so will get it done before either completely fails. Another labour intensive item...Rolling Eyes great...


did mine myself this last winter, the drivers side driveshaft has to be disconnected to get in there, so that adds a bit of time . top fastener is completely blind, but shorter motor (it's only about 20mm) makes a world of difference. indie time...not sure...3 or 4 hours maybe ?
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1996 C2 manual
 
  
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AP90
Nürburgring


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 377
Location: Cornwall UK


PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Williams Crawford quoted me 4hrs all in
 
  
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wilsonny
Monza


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Posts: 191
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch3tman wrote:
wilsonny wrote:
design911 sell a new Bosch unit (not exchange) at a reasonable price.. its the same unit as for 996 and later.. fits perfect and is slightly shorter and lighter so fitting is significantly easier. turns over mega quick.

Thanks for the info.

1. Are there any drawbacks whatsoever of it being 'slightly shorter?
2. BOSCH unit is £285+VAT, HELLA unit is £150+VAT: is it fair to assume BOSCH would've been the original Porsche supplier?
3. Any idea how many hours it would take an indy to remove/fit?


dug out my pics comparing the original Bosch unit to the design 911 bosch that fits 993 and later....


https://photos.app.goo.gl/Zp2iPtzMmE6gXsVV6


https://photos.app.goo.gl/Np3fZFfsbWZR8xwFA
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1996 C2 manual
 
  
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ch3tman
Hockenheim


Joined: 08 Dec 2012
Posts: 736
Location: South Bucks

1995 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilsonny wrote:
ch3tman wrote:
ballcock wrote:
@ ch3tman, Bosch were the OE supplier.
I’ve been told its a bit of a b1tch to swap out as it sits on top of the gearbox (?) and has to be removed by Braille Razz so expect a few hours labour.

Thanks ballcock thumbsup. It's been on the to-do list for a while along with the earth strap. As mentioned by many, both are clearly a weak point on the car and appears to be the cause of various issues, so will get it done before either completely fails. Another labour intensive item...Rolling Eyes great...

did mine myself this last winter, the drivers side driveshaft has to be disconnected to get in there, so that adds a bit of time . top fastener is completely blind, but shorter motor (it's only about 20mm) makes a world of difference. indie time...not sure...3 or 4 hours maybe ?

Many thanks wilsonny for the info and digging out the photo comparison above. Much appreciated. If there are no drawbacks (long term? any impact whatsoever?) to having the shorter motor it seems sensible to go for it Smile.
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wilsonny
Monza


Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Posts: 191
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ch3tman wrote:
wilsonny wrote:
ch3tman wrote:
ballcock wrote:
@ ch3tman, Bosch were the OE supplier.
I’ve been told its a bit of a b1tch to swap out as it sits on top of the gearbox (?) and has to be removed by Braille Razz so expect a few hours labour.

Thanks ballcock thumbsup. It's been on the to-do list for a while along with the earth strap. As mentioned by many, both are clearly a weak point on the car and appears to be the cause of various issues, so will get it done before either completely fails. Another labour intensive item...Rolling Eyes great...

did mine myself this last winter, the drivers side driveshaft has to be disconnected to get in there, so that adds a bit of time . top fastener is completely blind, but shorter motor (it's only about 20mm) makes a world of difference. indie time...not sure...3 or 4 hours maybe ?

Many thanks wilsonny for the info and digging out the photo comparison above. Much appreciated. If there are no drawbacks (long term? any impact whatsoever?) to having the shorter motor it seems sensible to go for it Smile.


only had it on 6 months... but it is more powerful than the original, fits perfect (easier to fit) and is the oem bosch model for 996 and later, so seems like a no brainer to me.
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alex-j
Trainee


Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also fitted the newer, shorter Bosch starter motor. Easier to fit and does seem to crank the engine much faster than the old one.

It's the one in the middle of the picture, original at the bottom.

Don't ask why I had and fitted three Sad
 



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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 437
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching this thread with a bit of interest given it seems some starter motors fail after what seems like not a lot of use...?

Just some generalised thinking...... Perhaps the failures are as a result of the effect of lay up and lengthy cranking periods and on a battery with reducing voltage which can result to some degree of possible overheating in the motor windings..? As the battery voltage drops the motor turns slower and in so doing heats up...? In general electric motors can be designed to work in temperatures much higher than those which a Porsche starter motor might experience, thus I would hope that Porsche/Bosch knew what class of insulation the motor would require in any Porsche environment...?

In days gone by Fords ever had a rep as noisy starters, a lot of which was down to changes in the ring gear dimensions around the flywheel and folk fitting what they thought was the correct starter with the wrong number of teeth to match the flywheel... butchering both flywheel and starter teeth in time.... I think when replacing starters it might be worth while comparing shaft diameter and number of teeth on both the old and new starters...?

If poor starter performance was down to a poor earth lead betwixt chassis and engine, would that not throw up some spurious fault codes as a result...? Thinking voltage drop as the earth connection fails under the starter loading, causing similar voltage drops on sensors etc.etc.etc....?

Just thinking in type... Question
 
  
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