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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6382
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Fabspeed Cup Airbox Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
Fabspeed Cup Airbox.......

I already have the "sports" airbox fitted but was intrigued by the cup car option.

There is some "controversy" over this items but my thought process was as follows:

- dragging hot air into the combustion chamber is a no no Hand
- dragging more air into the air chamber is a plus
- dragging air under pressure to the air chamber is a plus

so the simplistic ideal is to fit an induction system in such a way as pressurised cold air is fed into the engine. Thats why your car feels faster on a crisp winters day Wink

I have no evidence of the following but my simple logic based on the above simple ideals is that the 993 air induction is flawed in some ways as it drags air in which has been warmed at least to some extend by the engine. The only way to improve this is to protect the external air from the engine heat as it enters the combustion chamber ie extend the intake up to the engine grill. I believe their is an option to do this via a "trumpet" for the fixed winged cars. However this will not fit the retracting grill for obvious reasons.

So unless I want to go fixed wing (which I don't) I have to accept a compromise in engine heat transfer to the air induction.

With regard to pressurised air the OEM 993 airbox is split into 2 parts. The back part is specially disigned to increase air pressure into the combustion chamber so the ideal is not to lose this feature ie retain the back part of the OEM airbox.

This leaves air volume. The OEM sports airbox allows more air through compared to the stock airbox by simply putting more holes in the front part of the airbox. nb the side affect of this is a "induction" noise which most regard as pleasing under full throttle Smile

It appears that Porsches own solution to this on race (cup) cars was to effectively remove the front of the airbox altogether thus allowing as much air as possible to enter the combustion chamber Surprised

However you still need to fit an air filter to stop contaminents entering the engine and the OEM front of the airbox was how this was retained in place. The solution was to simply provide the skeleton of the front airbox which sole purpose is to retain the air filter.

Fabspeed seem to have simply produced a version using he same logic.

In summary the pluses are supposed to be maximum pressurised airflow into the combustion chamber. The side effects are increased induction noise.

Note: To maximise the benefits of the increased airflow in the extra air volume needs to be able to exit easily. Therefore reducing any "blockages" to the exhaust side of the engine helps. This is why sports cats and mufflers help with performance ie less obstrucition to exhaust gases leaving the car. my car has sports (RSR) mufflers but not sports cats (still has OEM cats).

One of the problems reported of the cup airbox design is the skeleton frame holding the air filter offers less support to the filter. There have been reports of OEM air filters collapsing. Therefore it is recommended fitting sports "free flowing" air filters. These are designed to allow more airflow but as a a consequence tend to be more rigid and therefore less prone to collapse.

So that is my simple, none scientific, none engineered man logic which led me to want to try the Fabspeed cup airbox. The only part of my logic which does not really make sense is why did Porsche not fit the trumpet style solution to their fixed wing cup cars Dont know

Anyhow it was a nice ebay project for me to source a second hand one.

One came up advertised from america with a buy it now option but the buyer would not accept my offer. It was the first one that I had seen come up on Ebay so a bit disappointing. So imagine my delight when within a week one came up from a UK seller and my offer was accepted.

It arrived today.....






I make no apologise for the gratuitous opportunity to show my GT2 poster in the new man cave wack

Unfortunately my new garage is not quite ready and so the 993 is not at home at the moment so trail fitting / running will have to wait for now but I will complete the write up when fitted.

Here is the Fabspeed youtube video of the installation / running etc....


Open Youtube Page


ps I have no interest in a debate over BHP etc.... its all about how it sounds and the car feels on the road to me Thumb


Got around to trying to fit this today, trying being the operative word. What should have been a 2 minute job was impossible PC

I knew from watching the fabsoeed video that you have to transfer over the two retaining clips but on the new unit the mouldings for the clips are not present. There is no sign of them having broken off and I've checked the fab speed website which clearly shows them present so this does not look like a genuine fab speed item Cop .

Without them it is impossible to retain in place. I purchased through ebay via a PayPal payment so have contacted the seller for a full refund. If he does not agree I will simply raise a claim, the pics I have speak for themselves Smile

Disappointed I did not get chance to try this though.
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9MLS
Imola


Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 779



PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH Jon, the Fabspeed one is a waste of time too, paper and standard as it has been said 100;s of time before, many of them in the know and not just polishers like us lot. I reckon you have gained 10 bhp there........ Floor
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6382
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read all of the reviews on rennlist etc so bought it under no illusions. I'm not interested in performance gains / losses as they would be unnoticeable to me either way in the real world, I just wanted to see what the induction noise would be like.

I guess I have driven too many CSL's and hanker after that holy grail of induction noise Wink
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9MLS
Imola


Joined: 22 Jan 2014
Posts: 779



PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flat 6 might leave you wanting then............
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6382
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some pics from the Gasworth Hall Car Rally today.






A great setting for browsing the cars on show.......


















Not sure what happened here......




This one takes me back.....




and then there was this bad boy.....






Was good to catch up with Zingari who I caught sat on a deckchair eating cake Hand and of course we chatted 993 prices Floor
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Zingari
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 13029
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to see you Jon Thumb This event needs to be attended by more 911uk chums, if the weather is good, its a great day out for £5 Thumb

Only one knob - in a 458. I think the stewards had set him up by sending him to the top field where the PCGB stand was Floor Getting up there everyone knew he had a sports exhaust (or gout in his right foot) only for him to do the 'drive of shame' on the way back down to park in the out field Hand His ladyfreind didn't look too impressed. Maybe the copious offers of coffee from some of the spectators was too much Rolling Eyes
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6382
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to remember you volunteering to organise a NW 911UK meet Smile

Of course 993 values are so high now we may need to organise some sort of special insurance Hand
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Last edited by jonttt on Mon May 05, 2014 6:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Trantorman
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Aug 2008
Posts: 367



PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AH the ultimate Porsche 3.6 turbo,

I will gladly swop or trade a 993 turbo or my right Arm for one.

That would be my perfect addition to the fleet, but sadly that boat appears to have sailed even more than the 993 RS. Sad
 
  
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Zingari
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 13029
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
I seem to remember you volunteering to organise a NW 911UK meet Smile

Of course 993 values are so high now we may need to organise some sort of special insurance Hand


Leave it with me Thumb I need to think of some venues Question Bull's Head Mobberley (very Porsche friendly) comes to mind or perhaps somewhere more NW 'central' Question

I think the 'Bad Boy' 3.6 is Norman Shums who IIRC is also having a 964 completely rebulit by 9M to join the turbo and rather nice white C2 he also has what
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elee
Österreich


Joined: 03 Oct 2010
Posts: 900


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
Some pics from the Gasworth Hall Car Rally today.






A great setting for browsing the cars on show.......
Looking very nice mate

















Not sure what happened here......




This one takes me back.....




and then there was this bad boy.....






Was good to catch up with Zingari who I caught sat on a deckchair eating cake Hand and of course we chatted 993 prices Floor
Thumb looking very nice mate
 
  
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AndyS
Albert Park


Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 1569
Location: The fast lane


PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:
Good to see you Jon Thumb This event needs to be attended by more 911uk chums, if the weather is good, its a great day out for £5 Thumb


If I'd even known about this, I would have definitely been there - I love stuff like this and it's not too far away. It would have rounded off a good weekend, after 2 days at Donington for the Historic festival Thumb
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Andy

1996 Polar Silver 993 Coupe - AKA 'the money pit'

 
  
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Dream911
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2456
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did your seats arrive? I see the seller listed them again although this time the pictures are of painted hardbacks.
 
  
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Despite the seller having used mostly the same pics. The ones he's listed now have painted Steel Grey backs.

Does he 'remanufacture' and sell these as a side line?
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Zingari
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 13029
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dommorton wrote:
Despite the seller having used mostly the same pics. The ones he's listed now have painted Steel Grey backs.

Does he 'remanufacture' and sell these as a side line?


It's Nessy's cousin Der Nessmeister Dont know
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The game's afoot. It's time to put a bit of (Colini) stick about......Why RUF when you can WUF
 
  
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6382
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there is a story unfolding.....

One seat arrived, the other is still in "transit" PC

but the seat that has arrived is damaged Mad

it looks as though it has been dropped from a height landing on the top of the backrest and cracking the carbon fiber back PC

I think its a combination of logistics being heavy handed throwing boxes around and the seller not packaging them properly.

So far communication has been good and he has agreed to pay for the courier to collect the item and he will replace the back FOC. He has stated its all covered on his insurance. We have agreed to wait until the second seat arrives so that I can inspect that before return of the damaged one.

Here are some quick pics I took after delivery but to be honest once I realised it was damaged it went striaght back in the box and was resealed as I lost interest in it nooo

I also saw the advert for the similar items by the same seller which does imply he does this as a "trade" which to be honest is better for me and makes sense that he can replace the back with a new one Thumb

Patience is a virtue.......... lets see how things pan out Bandit

packaging was a bit flimsy and box shows signs of being dropped......






resulting in carbon fiber being cracked.....






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harryk
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 374
Location: N.Ireland


PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez, what a disappointment!

Given the weight of these seats, I think the trader should have put the pair on a pallet. Last year I sold the interior of an old s-class to Borneo and fitted the lot into a pallet with ply on the sides and top. The seats were wrapped in the black shrink wrap stuff and any gaps inside were stuffed with plastic to reduce movement.

Perhaps have the guy explore this option next time?
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1995 993 C4 Coupe. Schwartz/Flamenco Red soft nappa leather. Exclusive leather everything, Exclusive extended centre console, MO33 suspension set up by CG, Chipwizards 287bhp remap, FDM Goldenrod & SSK, Techart exhaust, Techart pedal set, Tequipment dials, Tequipment handbrake & gearlever.
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Should carbon break that easily?

I'd be worried they are badly made. If it does that in transit, what the heck would happen in a crash nooo

Shame as otherwise they look great. The new matte leather looks very fresh.
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6382
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other seat has arrived ........... and its in perfect condition Smile

I have therefore given this one a proper inspection and I am chuffed to bits with it. It just makes it more frustrating that the first was damaged PC

The second was packaged exactly the same as the first but is still in my view too flimsy. I totally agree with the comment above and I was expecting them to arrive on a pallet. This would have avoided boxes being thrown around.

Carbon Fiber is one of those strong but brittle materials ie a force applied in a certain way will crack / fracture it. I think what has clearly happened here is that the box has been thrown from a height and landed on the top. This has stressed the back of the chair (especially with the weight of the base on it) and fractured the Carbon at a "flex" point. Carbon Fiber does not flex to any real degree. In the real world use of the seats this would not happen. Having now inspected the carbon fiber properly on the undamaged seat it is very well made and thick ie not the crappy stuff you can see daylight through.

So all in all I am very pleased with the product, they wll look awesome in the car but its now down to the seller to see me happy re the damaged item..............
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dommorton
Zolder


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 5062


1998 Porsche 993 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff.

Hope the replacement is with you soon Thumb
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jonttt
Long Beach


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 6382
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update from today......

I have spoken over the phone to the seller from Germany and the damaged seat is due to be picked up at his cost tomorrow morning, so far so good Question

To be fair I missed 2 phone calls and picked up 2 text messages from him ( I know I do have to work sometimes Wink ) and he seems a really nice guy. Always an interesting conversation with my none existent german and his pidgin English but he was the patient one trying to understand my accent Grin
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