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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:04 pm    Post subject: NEW LIGHT WEIGHT LI-ION LITHIUM BATTERY Reply with quote

Hi, does anyone have any info oin the new lithium battery being fitted on the 2010 RS. I believe its 10kgs lighter and given that its mounted quite high up in the car, its sure to assist (in combination with several other weight saving steps) to improve handling. Who makes it for POrsche, What do they cost? etc
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3583
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: NEW LI-ION BATTERY Reply with quote

manogh wrote:
Hi, does anyone have any info oin the new lithium battery being fitted on the 2010 RS. I believe its 10kgs lighter and given that its mounted quite high up in the car, its sure to assist (in combination with several other weight saving steps) to improve handling. Who makes it for POrsche, What do they cost? etc


All I can give you is that it is 1600Euro + VAT on the German price list, has a capacity of only 18AH, saves 10kg and doesn't function very well if the temperature outside is below 0 degrees (this is all in the German ordering guide and paraphrased as I had to babelfish it).

Frankly I think that a lead gel racing battery is a better bet and way cheaper if you were really desperate (though that would void the warranty of course). But lets face it - this is the kind of option that will only ever be specified by the kind of people who also delete their Xenon headlights (saves 6 more kg)...
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1600 Euros and arctic weather... Confused ...much rather follow your advice and enjoy driving in the sunshine Cool
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5713



PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, do you really want this going on under your bonnet...


Open Youtube Page
 
  
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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....WOW...no thank you...especially not near my fuel tank. I would much rather use my boring and heavy battery. Perhaps that the reason why car manufacturers have not been using them?
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5713



PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manogh wrote:
....WOW...no thank you...especially not near my fuel tank. I would much rather use my boring and heavy battery. Perhaps that the reason why car manufacturers have not been using them?


TESLA has about 1800 of them IIRC Surprised Surprised
 
  
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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

POINT TAKEN....
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david_yorkshire
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 238
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

remember folks these batteries are everywhere now;
following on from the video, do you put your mobile phone in the front trunk ? or laptop ?
 
  
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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite correct, we all carry cellphones in our pockets and we fall asleep sometimes with our laptops in our beds. We carry highly combustible fuel in our cars yet we push them to the limit on the track....but for the price tag i would fit the battery to mine....but perhaps its also the cheapest way to shed 10kgs without ruining the car. I spent a greater fortune on my Manthey BBS magnesuim wheels to lose 18kgs of rotational mass.
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5713



PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

david_yorkshire wrote:
remember folks these batteries are everywhere now;
following on from the video, do you put your mobile phone in the front trunk ? or laptop ?


Yes, but they are not working at full capacity and generating heat at the time. Li-ion batteries are lethal if they overheat and overheating can be caused by over-charging, rapid discharge, impact or shock. There have been quite a few cases of exploding mobile phones, iPods and laptops (just Google it if you don't believe me) and these are very low voltage, low capacity cells.

I'm sure Porsche have done substantial research and testing, but I wouldn't pay that much extra, with a little extra safety risk, just to save as much weight as you could save by just eating a few less pies yourself Grin

IMO that falls into the same category as the ridiculous carbon-fibre roof on the M3: Something to boast about - because "Oim considerably richer than yow", rather than actually making any appreciable difference to performance or handling... Grin
 
  
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david_yorkshire
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 238
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not wishing to perpetuate this, neither is the car battery running at full stress all the time !

Li-ion or li-po exhibit thermal runaway when their voltage per cell exceedes a limit, and you contnue pumping charge into them, or you short circuit the cell.

I have used cells that will discharge in excess of 600A without damage; all it takes is the correct charging & monitoring circuitry.
which, for the premium that Porsche is 'charging' (LOL) I'd hope it should be sorted correctly!

there are lithium cells that also don't exhibit this issue, but they can't currently handle such high discharge / charge rates.

battery technology is proceeding at a rapid rate of knots at the moment - and becoming all the better for it.

I still think I'd go for the lightweight gel cell at the moment, and put the cash saved into hydrocarbons..

David
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3583
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I find the cost and that it is only 18Ah to both be good enough reasons to ignore it completely. Surely that means daily medium range drives or permanently plugged into a battery maintainer just to have the thing start reliably?
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3583
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another footnote to this thread. Just noticed on the UK configurator that there is an option on it to completely delete the entire audio system if you really want to put it on a diet... what
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
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david_yorkshire
Monza


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 238
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

now yer talking Smile
 
  
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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 kg drop in weight is definately worth it...esp when one arrives at the track....but only time will tell if its the best way to lose 10kgs...lets see what the future unveils for us all.
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3583
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manogh wrote:
10 kg drop in weight is definately worth it...esp when one arrives at the track....but only time will tell if its the best way to lose 10kgs...lets see what the future unveils for us all.


If you were looking for the lightest specification available, you want the lightweight seats, lightweight headlights, delete air con, delete audio system, without clubsport (i.e. ditch the cage - it is heavy) and then the lightweight battery. While 50-60kg lighter, you will have then spent over £111k on something with a crippled residual value though...

(What use and RS without cage and harnesses, but even if you left those in, the lack of air con has been proven to make then unsalable at anything near book price in the past).

Oh - anyone else notice that on the configurator the nasty logo on the front right wing is not there? [The one on the left rear still is though].
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Colin

Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You seem to have taken my point. Its a great way to shed weight (even if only 10 kgs) without ruining a great car. A 996 RS will become a sought after POrsche in time to come. Its the last pure machine...no electronic interface between the driver and track. Making an RS better (by making it lighter) without ruining it means you have limitations to what you can do. 10kgs from the battery, 20kgs from the exhaust, 18kgs from the wheels, PCCB, 2kgs from the quarter glasses, 12kgs from the doors, 6kgs from suspension...your RS is still every bit an RS but something a whole lot better. My RS tips the scales at 1290 kgs and has 410 BHP from the Manthey K410 mod. To me, losing the 10kgs from the battery makes immense sense....as i said, let time guide us on whether or not its a good option.
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DanH
Trainee


Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 51



PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://voltphreaks.com/ sell these. They are not litium ion but the more stable lithium iron phospate.
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manogh
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Oct 2008
Posts: 148
Location: DURBAN, SOUTH AFRICA

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 RS

PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys...check out www.braillebattery.co.uk .... Laughing they have batteries that weigh as little as 5kgs for cars....i am definately buying. Just getting the techno-gurus to give me guidance on the right one for a 996 RS...will keep you posted.
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DanH
Trainee


Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 51



PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

manogh wrote:
Guys...check out www.braillebattery.co.uk .... Laughing they have batteries that weigh as little as 5kgs for cars....i am definately buying. Just getting the techno-gurus to give me guidance on the right one for a 996 RS...will keep you posted.


They aren't as light as the voltphreaks as they use a traditional battery chemisty.

http://voltphreaks.com
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