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moorhouse
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 424
Location: Northumberland


PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to whoever recently re-opened this thread as I hadn't come across it before. Fascinating details on the X51 option and great pictures - thanks GT4.

Might be helpful for any prospective purchaser looking for an X51 car to know that the 40th Anniversary cars (1963 total of which 123 were UK registered) all came with this package as standard (albeit without the 3rd rad as mentioned earlier in the thread) and also with the LSD as standard. Might just help you to widen your search to find an X51 equipped car. The 40th Anniversary facebook page lists most of the current 40th for sale including in the UK. Mine's not for sale by the way!

Cheers.Ian
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrMEMS wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to document this. It seems like the X51 "power package" is as much about lubrication reliability as added power.

Previously you noted that for the 996.1 3.4-L engine, the pistons are different for X51 than for standard, while for the 996.2 3.6-L engine, the pistons are the same for X51 and standard. Are there any other differences you know of between X51 engines for the 3.4- and 3.6-L engines?


The 3.6 gained the X51 swirl know-how for the standard engine, so it's not that the X51 is less enhanced for the 3.6, more the standard engine is better equipped out the box.

Other than that, the recipe is the same for the 996.2.

It's when you get to the 997.1 that the corner cutting started: no new high lift cam shafts/valves, no additional lubrication lines.

The compensatory "upside" for the 997 was free PSE (option XLF) and carbon fibre airbox.

The GTS, which featured the X51 as standard kit did, however, lose the ridiculously expensive and zero performance merit carbon airbox (included PSE was retained).

Edited to add: some 997 details for comparison

Last edited by GT4 on Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:06 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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New997buyer
Yas Marina


Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 8039



PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stay
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"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere...but....other things being equal, it is better to be smart than to be stupid."
Carl Sagan

997.1 turbo
Ex 996.2 turbo, 996.1 C2
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although the Carrera Cup and Power Up special editions of the 996 3.4 were mentioned on page one, I didn't include their production run:

3.4
Carrera Cup (Germany) :: 30 units
Power Up Edition (Japan) :: 25 units
3.6
40 Jarhe (World wide) :: 1,963 units

X51 total take up of the cost option (ie not including spec eds) during 996 reign was circa 1% (or 1,500 units).
 
  
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Matt-A
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 15 Nov 2014
Posts: 256
Location: Cheshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:

X51 total take up of the cost option (ie not including spec eds) during 996 reign was circa 1% (or 1,500 units).


And I am glad to have one of them ☺
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steve r
Silverstone


Joined: 26 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some more X51 info:



Edit, hmm rubbish quality when linked to here, not sure why. Heres a link to the full document: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEEQFjAGOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.knclub.ru%2Ff%2Fattachments%2F19926d1295789361-_aftersales_training_-_911_carrera_boxster_cayman_engine_repair.pdf&ei=v0OzVMzjEY2xyASxiYCgDw&usg=AFQjCNEH9IPQO9lyTT3inX2MdcbrbzPFYA&sig2=XAp8rJk-5IzAWOYhObSopg&bvm=bv.83339334%2Cd.aWw
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GT4
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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moorhouse
Nürburgring


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 424
Location: Northumberland


PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that extra information Stever - have sent you a PM on the planned 40th AE meet up later this month.
Cheers.Ian
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jaw
Newbie


Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 1



PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to say a massive thanks for posting this thread!

Has anyone dyno'd a x51 equipped motor? the outputs seem to vary significantly? I was under the impression that the output was political due to the GT3 not pushing much above the 3.6 x51 - but wasn't sure if this was a case of playing down the figure, or if it was physically strangled back - would like to know how that transfers onto the 3.4 too.

Also wondered if with the additional cooling and oil delivery - if IMS upgrades were still worthwhile?

So many questions, sorry Laughing
 
  
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DrMEMS
Newbie


Joined: 13 Mar 2015
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Porsche Motorsport Division X51 PowerKit (320 PS/235KW) Reply with quote

Red993C4 wrote:
GT4 wrote:

The GT3 3.6 (M96/76) and X51 PowerKit 3.4 M96/01S engines were both developed together, in case what became the actual GT3 3.6 (GT1 derived block) failed racing regulations and/or reliability requirements for a successful homologation.

For what it's worth, your source did not get his information absolutely right. Whilst the development of the GT3 engine and the X51 Powerkit may have overlapped chronologically, they were not developed "together", since the X51 kit was developed by the same series-production motor team which developed the M96/01 base engine, not in the Motorsport division.


Here is some related information of interest. This is from Porsche Panorama, the magazine of the Porsche Club of America, July 2015 issue, pp. 66-71, in an article entitled "Main Stay" by Kieron Fennelly. This is in interview about Horst Marchart, "the technical backbone who oversaw Porsche's transition to water-cooled sports cars--twice."

Interviewer: You are also associated with Herbert Ampferer and the so-called Mezger engine of the GT3. How did that come about?

Marchart: The M96 [996 engine] would support a lateral force of 0.8 g, which meant at least half of the clients using the 996 on the track wouldn't have a problem. But if you used slick tires, the fastest drivers could have oil starvation. We couldn't allow that--it was totally the wrong image of Porsche. So Ampferer designed the GT3 engine for the Cup series. The trouble was the number of cars we would have to make for homologation was not going to be enough to offset development costs. So we had the idea of using this engine as the basis for the 996 Turbo, which would be made in far greater numbers and bring down parts costs, making the GT3 affordable.
 
  
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Y2K
Monza


Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 214
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a great thread; thank you GT4 and everyone who contributed.
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Gurmot
Trainee


Joined: 23 Jun 2016
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can anyone advise how a X51 equipped car can be identified please. What are the external signs (apart from exhaust which has been replaced with a custom made assembly).

Thanks
 
  
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Matt-A
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 15 Nov 2014
Posts: 256
Location: Cheshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gurmot wrote:
Can anyone advise how a X51 equipped car can be identified please. What are the external signs (apart from exhaust which has been replaced with a custom made assembly).

Thanks


There are no external signs, you can only tell by either looking on the code sticker or in the engine bay the sand cast alloy inlet manifolds give it away.
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GT4
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gurmot wrote:
Can anyone advise how a X51 equipped car can be identified please. What are the external signs (apart from exhaust which has been replaced with a custom made assembly).

Thanks


The third centre rad would be a good indicator (assuming not a Tip and not retrofitted, and don't forget the Anni and X51 C4S won't get the end rad either).

If you could peer under the rear end, the manifold would give it away too (again, assumes a genuine one hasn't been molested, or a non-X51 hasn't retrofitted just the X51 manifolds).

If you went further, at a push you'd notice the dual chamber oil pump and extra oil return line (extra "towel-rail" here):





 
  
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Halcyon
Montreal


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 598
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it won't have X51 on the option sticker under the frunk and inside the service book? Or should it have that as well?
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Matt-A
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 15 Nov 2014
Posts: 256
Location: Cheshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is on the frunk sticker


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stanuk964996
Newbie


Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 37
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume the oil pump and return line are available as spares. Can they be retrofitted to a non-X51 car?

I have an MO30 c2 and am currently fitting the centre rad and am interested in fitting any parts that improve engine longevity.
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1991 964 Carrera RS rep, cup cams, Specialist Components ECU with MAF, uprated injectors, etc. 300bhp@1250kg, G50/21 993 6sp gearbox, LSD, Bilstein/Eibach/H&R suspension, 993RS big reds, Recaro's, etc.

1998 996 Carrera, M030, LSD, GT3 wheels and aero kit, Bilstein PSS10's.
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halcyon wrote:
I guess it won't have X51 on the option sticker under the frunk and inside the service book? Or should it have that as well?


If it's factory and it has stickers, they will say X51.

I think the question meant could a layperson tell from just looking at a car on the street (the cheatiest way would of course be to pop the VIN from the front windscreen in the Porsche build spec database).
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stanuk964996 wrote:
I assume the oil pump and return line are available as spares. Can they be retrofitted to a non-X51 car?

I have an MO30 c2 and am currently fitting the centre rad and am interested in fitting any parts that improve engine longevity.


Both are retrofittable (fit the High-G sump too).

Note: the oil line will need a new through-block boring and associated fixings (ie helicoil the bracket threads)
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With thanks to J Holmes, from this thread:

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118434

J Holmes wrote:
A new carbon airbox is £2780 plus vat from Porsche as a standalone item (part number 997.110.925.00). But the full gen 1 X51 powerkit is still available - if you already have the sports exhaust then the rest of the kit costs £5228 plus vat (not including fitting). For that you get the heads, manifolds, airbox, inlet manifold, third radiator kit etc etc. But the part number for the carbon airbox in the full kit is slightly different - 997.110.025.00, and against it the price is 'only' £1281 plus vat.

So if you ever find yourself in the position of needing a new carbon airbox it might worth asking your main dealer to try and order the part number of the box from the kit, if successful that's a saving of over 50% on the RRP of the standalone one.

One other thing, according to the brochure Porsche would only retrofit the powerkit to 3.8L cars built after 08/2005. So anything from before that date would not be a pukka X51 car

(text is from the 2007 Tequipment brochure (so 2007 prices) and the screen shot is from the Porsche system (current prices, excluding fitting).





 
  
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