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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More piccies:

Crated X51 (fitted after nonX51 died):




X51 modified oil pan partition box (larger alloy baffles with aperture valving) vs standard small plastic baffled box - AKA "High G sump":

 
  
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doulas bader
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Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 - what are the similarities & differences between your X51 and the 3.6 X51? How is your power delivered - the 3.6 power hike seems to exist only in the top 1.750rpm, not too useful unless you are in to well illegal speeds, also some gear shifts (at red line) result in falling below this power band...
Is the 3.6 X51 engine also a whisker less unreliable than the standard?
 
  
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baptistsan
Monza


Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 164
Location: suffolk


PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it worth fitting any individual parts in isolation or do you need the full blown package?

For example is there a benefit to the modified oil pan on a standard 996?
 
  
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wizard993
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMG it's another Anoraknophobia Nervosa Outbreak(ANO) being the Porsche X51 Mutant Strain on 911uk.com Laughing
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doulas bader wrote:
GT4 - what are the similarities & differences between your X51 and the 3.6 X51? How is your power delivered - the 3.6 power hike seems to exist only in the top 1.750rpm, not too useful unless you are in to well illegal speeds, also some gear shifts (at red line) result in falling below this power band...
Is the 3.6 X51 engine also a whisker less unreliable than the standard?


The kit is effectively identical (except where outlined: eg 3.6 pistons are NOT changed, and Turbo/widebody nosed vehicles do NOT get the centre rad).

The underlying engines differ as per standard 3.4 to 3.6: VarioCam Plus, longer stroke, different cooling chambers, updated IMS, modified DME etc.

None of these directly affects the X51 substitutions.

I found the mid-range response better too.

The 3.4 X51 produces its peak power LOWER down the rev range than a non-X51.

The 3.4 X51 develops more torque than the non-X51.

Whereas the 3.6 X51 produces its peak power at the same rpm as a non-X51.

The 3.6 X51 develops NO more torque than the non-X51, additionally, what torque it has is developed later.

The comparative performance specifications are:

3.4
Power: 300 PS @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 258 lbft @ 4,600 rpm
Idle speed: 700 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
Top Speed: 174 mph (280 kph)
Acceleration: 4.8s 0-60 mph (5.2s 0-100 kph)
3.4 X51
Power: 320 PS @ 6,600 rpm (corresponding to 252 lbft)
Torque: 266 lbft @ 4,750-5,500 rpm
Idle speed: 800 rpm
Rev limit: 7,400 rpm
Top Speed: 179 mph (287 kph)
Acceleration: 4.6s 0-60 mph (5.0s 0-100 kph)


3.6
Power: 320 PS @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 274 lb ft @ 4,600 rpm
Idle speed: 670 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
Top Speed: 178 mph (285 kph)
Acceleration: 4.6s 0-60 mph (5.0s 0-100 kph)
3.6 X51
Power: 345 PS @ 6,800 rpm (corresponding to 268 lbft)
Torque: 274 lbft @ 5,000 - 6,000 rpm
Idle speed: 670 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
Top Speed: 181 mph (290 kph)
Acceleration: 4.5s 0-60 mph (4.9s 0-100 kph)


Porsche 996 3.4 Tequipment Brochure wrote:
[about the 3.4 X51]
A characteristic of the new engine is its continous power development, particularly at higher engine speeds above 5,000 rpm.


Porsche 996 3.6 Carrera Brochure wrote:
[about the 3.6 X51]
The X51 results in greater outright power at higher engine speeds as well as a more dynamic, free-revving response.

The sound of the car is also enhanced, particluarly in conjunction with the optional sports exhaust system.
 



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GT4
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

baptistsan wrote:
Is it worth fitting any individual parts in isolation or do you need the full blown package?

For example is there a benefit to the modified oil pan on a standard 996?


It is a very popular mod in the US to fit the additional third radiator for racing/tracking (to both Boxsters and 996).

Additionally, often the High-G sump is fitted too (again for racing/tracking purposes).
 
  
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doulas bader
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Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 295



PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the strain you refer to, Wizard, has been rendered extinct by critical-mass innoculation. The new strain is currently endemic but once the secrets of the X51 become commonly known to a certain number a mass epidemic of pandemic proportions will occur. See the values of the X51 versions of the 996 rise through the stratosphere as punters learn that this mod gives a power benefit impossible to gain by remapping/induction kits/other after market tatt!!! Meanwhile the 'cooking' 996? Doomed to greater depreciation I fear, which if I recall will have your ilk opening another bottle of decent Pomerol??
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doulas bader wrote:
GT4 - what are the similarities & differences between your X51 and the 3.6 X51? How is your power delivered - the 3.6 power hike seems to exist only in the top 1.750rpm, not too useful unless you are in to well illegal speeds, also some gear shifts (at red line) result in falling below this power band...
Is the 3.6 X51 engine also a whisker less unreliable than the standard?


Sorry, in my explanation above, I may have not been clear. The diffrences in power delivery are down to the underlying engine and its tunable envelope.

Although the mechanical upgrades are basically the same, the DME remap (and indeed base code) will be quite different.

The DME went from 7.2 (or 5.2 if not eGas) to 7.8.

This is a far more capable unit (from an ECU point of view).

Found a scruffy power deliver chart for 3.6 X51 too (with the odd torque displacement to higher revs):
 



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doulas bader
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Joined: 03 Dec 2008
Posts: 295



PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks GT-4 - most illuminating and explains why I couldn't find the centre rad on my Anniversary car (no extra safety margin on cooling for me, then - why did they leave the centre rad out on my car?).
Do you have the 3.6 X51 power curve comparison in a format I can download?

I reckon your 3.4 X51 would be a nicer car to drive than the 3.6X51... I had a 3.4 and it felt a lot more alive and lythe than any 3.6 I have driven (I know, it is very much lighter). Also your power gain must be far more useable. Plus your engine will be more bullet proof if you upgrade your IMS (no 3.6 coolant channel issues/longer bore hot points). The 3.6X51 seems to be more like an after thought and less 'designed' from the ground up like that of the 3.4, hence power stuck on to end of rev range (? more ECU trickery than mechanical improvements, plus the standard 3.6 already has a huge chunk of mid range torque that the 3.4 didn't, making increase more difficult) and a power curve that no longer matches the gear box ratios (ie redline up changes result in dropping out of the power band in the 3.6 X51). Also Porsche have engineered in a huge sound difference at 5,750 rpm which makes the power step 'feel' greater than it actually is (looking at the flat-ish curve showing increase in BHP whilst the tourque declines at revs over 5,500. Woa is me, I have bought a Porsche/DMS tat-mobile!! What are the respective 0-100mph times?
 
  
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wizard993
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Joined: 23 Jan 2008
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1966 Singer Gazelle

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

any owner who has this option fitted has won a watch but it was an expensive/eye watering option from the factory.

X51 cars are fetching up to £2k more Thumb
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 30178
Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

doulas bader wrote:
Thanks GT-4 - most illuminating and explains why I couldn't find the centre rad on my Anniversary car (no extra safety margin on cooling for me, then - why did they leave the centre rad out on my car?).
Do you have the 3.6 X51 power curve comparison in a format I can download?


The Turbo/wide-bodied nose cars (ie C4S and Annivesary/40 Jarhe) do not have the third centre rad as they already feature the larger Turbo rads and front PU with matching larger apertures.

The third rad adds between 25% and 50% more cooling (this is based on both surface area comparison and the larger air pressure available at the centre of the frontal area, rather than aerodynamic edge bleed evident on the side rads).

I am not sure of the Turbo vs standard rads efficacy, but a simple surface area comparison would give an almost exact calculation.

If you click on the above jpeg you can save it to your PC etc.

Other than that version (which is slightly cleaned up and contrast enhanced), I have the page scan in PDF, which I can email if you PM me.

The actual source of the chart is the 996 3.6 Carrera brochure from circa 2003.

I only have a poor scan, if you could get hold of the original hard-backed brochure or a better scan, it will show it better.
 
  
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Ant Blain
Kyalami


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 1754
Location: Manchester

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 wrote:

3.6
Power: 320 PS @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 274 lb ft @ 4,600 rpm
Idle speed: 670 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
Top Speed: 178 mph (285 kph)
Acceleration: 4.6s 0-60 mph (5.0s 0-100 kph)


4.6s to 60mph? Really? Floor
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15642
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant Blain wrote:
GT4 wrote:

3.6
Power: 320 PS @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 274 lb ft @ 4,600 rpm
Idle speed: 670 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
Top Speed: 178 mph (285 kph)
Acceleration: 4.6s 0-60 mph (5.0s 0-100 kph)


4.6s to 60mph? Really? Floor



Autocar Road test 19/26 December 2001.

0-30 = 1.6
0-40 = 2.5
0-50 = 3.5
0-60 = 4.6
0-70 = 5.5
0-80 = 7.0
0-90 = 8.2
0-100 = 10.1

This was the best set I ever found. Thumb
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2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Ant Blain
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Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 1754
Location: Manchester

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4.6 to 60mph is impressive. Must've been a speed yellow one they were testing, no...? puh
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T8
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General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15642
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant Blain wrote:
4.6 to 60mph is impressive. Must've been a speed yellow one they were testing, no...? puh


No. Purely by coincidence and seriously ... it was Seal Grey. Grin

edit = ps. It was wearing the same bodykit as yours though.
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ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Ant Blain
Kyalami


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 1754
Location: Manchester

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8996C4 wrote:
Ant Blain wrote:
4.6 to 60mph is impressive. Must've been a speed yellow one they were testing, no...? puh


No. Purely by coincidence and seriously ... it was Seal Grey. Grin


I was actually after Seal Grey (or some sort of blue) initially, but when I saw the yellow one in the metal it was obviously in so much better condition than anything else I'd seen I thought I would be mad not to buy it.



T8996C4 wrote:
It was wearing the same bodykit as yours though.


Must be the sideskirts giving it that performance edge... Grin
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doulas bader
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Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My local Porsche dealer calls the yellow colour "depreciation yellow"!
 
  
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GT4
Nordschleife
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Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 30178
Location: Hertfordshire and Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant Blain wrote:
GT4 wrote:

3.6
Power: 320 PS @ 6,800 rpm
Torque: 274 lb ft @ 4,600 rpm
Idle speed: 670 rpm
Rev limit: 7,300 rpm
Top Speed: 178 mph (285 kph)
Acceleration: 4.6s 0-60 mph (5.0s 0-100 kph)


4.6s to 60mph? Really? Floor


Porsche's official figures are 5.0s 0-62.14 mph

Quote:
Usually the difference between 0-60 mph and 0-100 km/h times for the same car is 0.3 to 0.4 sec
 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

doulas bader wrote:
What are the respective 0-100mph times?


AutoBild tests:

996 Carrera X51 345Hp
0-100Kph 4,7 Sec
0-160Kph 10,1
0-1000 Mts 22,7 Sec

996 Carrera 320Hp
0-100 Kph 5,0 Sec
0-160 Kph 10,8 Sec
0-1000 Mts 23,3 Sec

 
  
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GT4
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wizard993 wrote:
any owner who has this option fitted has won a watch but it was an expensive/eye watering option from the factory.

X51 cars are fetching up to £2k more Thumb


Apparently, they are commanding a £4k premium on a trader's lot.
 
  
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