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TimS
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 266
Location: United Kingdom

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Restoring/Building a tax-exempt car - ideas please! Reply with quote

Sorry for the long preamble, but I have an idea and would be interested in seeing what those of you who restore/run the early 70's cars think of it.


I've recently sold my 996 2000 Carrera 4 Cabrio for a lot less than I paid for it. A lovely car, but disappointing in some ways. However it was a great drive, my son loved riding in the back of it and always volunteered to wash it! Doing a 2000k drive around Europe 18 months ago was marvellous too. The 10k I lost on it in 3 years, before maintenance and service was regrettable though. In the last year, due to work and health, I didn't use it as much as I hoped, hence deciding to sell for now.

What I thought would really be ideal is to have pre-1973 car that I didn't have to pay road tax on, was safe reliable and fun. Something I could get out when I felt like it and not out of guilt thinking about the depreciation or running costs. The ability to do the odd long trip round Europe would be good too. I started thinking about what I could buy- rusty Jags, slow MG's, Mercs, and obviously early 911's. Which I don't know much about. Nice, but still now 40 year old technology.

Then I saw this on Ebay and had a slightly crazy idea -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PORSCHE-911-COUPE-1972-RESTORATION-PARTS-/120586125896?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item1c137e4248

Bear with me!! This is obviously a dog, probably well past redemption. It seems to be a 1971 car under a 1980's bodykit. Rotten and abused.

But what if I got a slightly better donor car and rebuilt to more modern spec. Still retaining the original style of the car but modernising the ride, brakes, handling, soundproofing etc. Fitting a rebuilt engine and newer gearbox. Fitting a modern interior to make a comfortable, soundproofed, long-distance car, with useable satnav, a decent stereo and decent belts and attachments for a child seat.

I'm sure many of you who have faithfully restored classics would be against it - I know. I've restored classics too. BUT, the problem with a classic is evident when you read the for sale ads - only used in the dry. Only used on sunny days, etc. I'd like something more robust.

So a modernisation of what might be an almost written off donor car might not be unreasonable. Build something good for a sensible budget and not lose a fortune in the process. Come resale, I know there is a market for this sort of thing- a colleague has just spent an enormous amount of money on a new 'old' VW camper van. Still built to the original style, but airbags, servos, working electrics etc.

So to the point. Is this a reasonable idea? How much could this cost if I do it, sensibly that is? Having spent 30k on a 996 nearly 4 years ago and gotten back a lot less, I'd like to see about spending 15-20k and keeping most of it. Also using new or reconditioned parts would give me an almost 'new' car and defer some of the problems age brings.

What engine could I fit? How easy is it to fit more modern parts on these cars - with a stripped out shell and starting from the ground up, but using original Porsche stuff. Using an early 70's car, what sort of performance could I get whilst still retaining usability and comfort - I don't want to build a racer.

Sorry for the long post, but I'd love to hear what people think. I know how passionate restorers can be, I still carry the scars from the engine block of an E-type I helped restore. I've posted here because I thought if I put this on the PCGB site, I'd get lynched!!
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Achtung
Kyalami


Joined: 22 Apr 2009
Posts: 1997



PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring/Building a tax-exempt car - ideas please! Reply with quote

TimS wrote:
Sorry for the long preamble, but I have an idea and would be interested in seeing what those of you who restore/run the early 70's cars think of it.


I've recently sold my 996 2000 Carrera 4 Cabrio for a lot less than I paid for it. A lovely car, but disappointing in some ways. However it was a great drive, my son loved riding in the back of it and always volunteered to wash it! Doing a 2000k drive around Europe 18 months ago was marvellous too. The 10k I lost on it in 3 years, before maintenance and service was regrettable though. In the last year, due to work and health, I didn't use it as much as I hoped, hence deciding to sell for now.

What I thought would really be ideal is to have pre-1973 car that I didn't have to pay road tax on, was safe reliable and fun. Something I could get out when I felt like it and not out of guilt thinking about the depreciation or running costs. The ability to do the odd long trip round Europe would be good too. I started thinking about what I could buy- rusty Jags, slow MG's, Mercs, and obviously early 911's. Which I don't know much about. Nice, but still now 40 year old technology.

Then I saw this on Ebay and had a slightly crazy idea -

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PORSCHE-911-COUPE-1972-RESTORATION-PARTS-/120586125896?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item1c137e4248

Bear with me!! This is obviously a dog, probably well past redemption. It seems to be a 1971 car under a 1980's bodykit. Rotten and abused.

But what if I got a slightly better donor car and rebuilt to more modern spec. Still retaining the original style of the car but modernising the ride, brakes, handling, soundproofing etc. Fitting a rebuilt engine and newer gearbox. Fitting a modern interior to make a comfortable, soundproofed, long-distance car, with useable satnav, a decent stereo and decent belts and attachments for a child seat.

I'm sure many of you who have faithfully restored classics would be against it - I know. I've restored classics too. BUT, the problem with a classic is evident when you read the for sale ads - only used in the dry. Only used on sunny days, etc. I'd like something more robust.

So a modernisation of what might be an almost written off donor car might not be unreasonable. Build something good for a sensible budget and not lose a fortune in the process. Come resale, I know there is a market for this sort of thing- a colleague has just spent an enormous amount of money on a new 'old' VW camper van. Still built to the original style, but airbags, servos, working electrics etc.

So to the point. Is this a reasonable idea? How much could this cost if I do it, sensibly that is? Having spent 30k on a 996 nearly 4 years ago and gotten back a lot less, I'd like to see about spending 15-20k and keeping most of it. Also using new or reconditioned parts would give me an almost 'new' car and defer some of the problems age brings.

What engine could I fit? How easy is it to fit more modern parts on these cars - with a stripped out shell and starting from the ground up, but using original Porsche stuff. Using an early 70's car, what sort of performance could I get whilst still retaining usability and comfort - I don't want to build a racer.

Sorry for the long post, but I'd love to hear what people think. I know how passionate restorers can be, I still carry the scars from the engine block of an E-type I helped restore. I've posted here because I thought if I put this on the PCGB site, I'd get lynched!!


Hi Tim,

Unless you have a fully equipped garage and the majority of your interest is going out to the garage at night and working at the car as a labour of love I would forget it.
Working at the E Type in the past should give you an idea of the effort required and the Huge amount of intrinsic motivation necessary to "keep going " to the end.

The other thing is that restorations are a money pit and rest assured that you will never re coup the money that you spend on parts and bought in skills never mind factoring in your own labour costs.

With a Porsche, the work will have to be carried out to the highest standards otherwise you will have difficulty finding a buyer when you come to sell.

From a financial standpoint and for the minimum of hassle I would recommend buying a car that some other poor sod has poured his sweat and money onto.

If you decide to go ahead, make sure that you buy the best possible donor car, probably an SC with a galvanized body which has a minimum of corrosion.

Last edited by Achtung on Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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TimS
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 266
Location: United Kingdom

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Restoring/Building a tax-exempt car - ideas please! Reply with quote

ACHTUNG wrote:


From a financial standpoint and for the minimum of hassle I would recommend buying a car that some other poor sod has poured his sweat and money onto.


Trouble is, these can be hard to find. I was thinking this time of having somone else do most of the hard work for a change too
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Now Sold! - 2000 Zenith Blue 996 Carrera 4 Cabrio Tip
 
  
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wagonface
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1429
Location: Esher

1991 Porsche 964 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim, sounds very interesting.

Reading your post, I think you need to work out what you want out of this car, and then find the car to fit the bill. It seems you want:
- minimal depreciation
- no road tax cost
- safe, reliable & fun
- low running costs

Surely the road tax isnt an issue? If you're prepared to pay for a restoration then road tax cant be the deciding factor!

Low running costs: its a Porsche... I guess if you invested heavily in the beginning (as per Graham's speedster) then in theory you could end up with a mostly new/refurbished car where running costs should be lower. But obviously this needs upfront investment.

This leaves: minimal depreciation, safe, reliable & fun. Thats not too hard a shopping list in my view. You suggest buying an old car and fitting it out with modern wroking bits. Surely its easier to buy a new car (964) and put an old shell on it? Alright, you wont avoid road tax, but again that cant be the deciding factor?

How important is the look of the car? If the look of the car is a lower priority than depreciation, safe, reliable & fun, then surely you could look at a 964 (turbo?) or a 3.2 Supersport or something else a little special? (I'm going more modern than the 70's as you mention you want safe)

I will stop rambling. What do you think your priorities are?

Josh
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964 3.3 Turbo
ex: 996 C2 Cab
 
  
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