DON'T BUY A Gen2 TURBO!

Save your money and get one of these:



http://www.electricsupercharger.com/images/install/porsche carrera_Super_install.jpg

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/products.html

PS - don't worry about the unsheilded cone sucking in lovely warm engine bay air, this sucker (sorry) draws in so much air it wont have time to heat up.

No need for those unwieldy and unsightly "spoilers" this system also pulls car to ground for extra traction due to resultant negative pressure*

* Not actually verified, but it didn't stop them before.

There is one born every minute, a sucker that is... sorry.

I would love to see the reaction of your local OPC when you go in to renew your warranty

Jeff said:

There is one born every minute, a sucker that is... sorry.

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not knowing tech, how so ?

I like the detail on THIS page

How that is anything to do with forced induction I'll never know.

Funny innit?

For those who may still believe - the way to work out if this is going to help :

A 3.6l engine revving at 7000rpm requires 25,200 litres of air (at normal pressure ) per minute. So if you want to 'pressurise' your engine, you need substantially more 'feed' than that.

So if you recon that the hairdryer seen above will shift say 30,000 litres of air per minute then you probably have a bargain on your hands -

LOJO :wink: :wink:

LOJO said:

Funny innit?

For those who may still believe - the way to work out if this is going to help :

A 3.6l engine revving at 7000rpm requires 25,200 litres of air (at normal pressure ) per minute. So if you want to 'pressurise' your engine, you need substantially more 'feed' than that.

So if you recon that the hairdryer seen above will shift say 30,000 litres of air per minute then you probably have a bargain on your hands -

LOJO :wink: :wink:

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+ 1 to what the man said...spot on :thumb:

LOJO said:

Funny innit?

For those who may still believe - the way to work out if this is going to help :

A 3.6l engine revving at 7000rpm requires 25,200 litres of air (at normal pressure ) per minute. So if you want to 'pressurise' your engine, you need substantially more 'feed' than that.

So if you recon that the hairdryer seen above will shift say 30,000 litres of air per minute then you probably have a bargain on your hands -

LOJO :wink: :wink:

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Actually, your maths is not quite right there... Unless yours is a two-stroke engine, it only requires 12,600 litres of air per minute :thumb:

Also, unless you have polished intake system, no air-filter, enormous valves and ports, super high-lift cams and the most unusual valve timing system I've ever come across, your engine will not get anywhere near that amount of air into the cylinders!

So, in fact, this electric supercharger will almost certainly give you a perceptible performance boost (assuming it manages to generate a little over atmospheric pressure, of course!) I wouldn't mind betting it would give most cars an extra 20 bhp though...

However - I don't think you will get anywhere near Turbo boost from a 12v electrical motor somehow... :floor:

All four strokes will Suck, Squeeze, Bang and Blow all once per cycle (revolution).

So a 3.6 litre displacement will draw in 22,500 litres per minute.

Admittedly, this will be at slightly less than atmospheric pressure thanks to negative pressure. This is caused by restriction and non-laminar flow at the throttle body aperture. This equates to, say 95% efficiency.

Now if the forced induction is to match a generic T-Charger it would need to provide 1.4 bar pressure (technically in-cylinder compression ration should be mechanically reduced within the engine on the addition of any form of forced induction, but we'll ignore that finesse, as eCharger have)

Any way, 1.4 bar at 95% into a 7k rpm 3.6 displacement would require 33,516 litres per minute.

A 240v Dyson sucks 1,650 a minute.

"Do the math"

GT4 said:

All four strokes will Suck, Squeeze, Bang and Blow all once per cycle (revolution).

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No they don't... each cylinder takes two revolutions of the engine to complete 4 strokes.

GT4 said:

So a 3.6 litre displacement will draw in 22,500 litres per minute.

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No it won't... not unless your inlet valves open during the combustion stroke... :thumb:

GT4 said:

Admittedly, this will be at slightly less than atmospheric pressure thanks to negative pressure. This is caused by restriction and non-laminar flow at the throttle body aperture. This equates to, say 95% efficiency.

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If you've managed to do something to achieve 95% efficiency of your car's intake system, I think there's a job for you at McLaren... :thumb:

The air filter alone will take far more than 5% - don't forget that at 7,000 rpm the air has less than 1/60 of a second to fill the cylinder through a tiny valve opening... That's a flow rate of 60 litres/second through two quite small valve openings. Without forced induction, that ain't going to happen.

GT4 said:

Now if the forced induction is to match a generic T-Charger it would need to provide 1.4 bar pressure (technically in-cylinder compression ration should be mechanically reduced within the engine on the addition of any form of forced induction, but we'll ignore that finesse, as eCharger have)

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But they are not claiming anything like the equivalent of a turbo - they are claiming 5% (and guarantee 15bhp). Which I reckon this would achieve, even if it just made your intake system 100% efficient

GT4 said:

"Do the math"

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I did - Honours degree in Automotive Engineering :thumb:

I do apologise, I failed to take into account that the four stroke requires TWO revolutions for a full cycle (incorrectly interpreted CYCLE=REVOLUTION)

As you point out, suck and bang are piston vector analogues, as are squeeze and blow (separated by valve operation, and obviously function)

To give the system the benefit of the doubt, I will also assume that the sytem purely assists airflow (ie it makes relative incremental pressure rather than responsible for 100% of the airflow) - Note: it would still have to allow throughput in excess of 11,250 LPM even with the most minimal FI.

In this case it would need to add 0.4 bar assistance

So, 0.4 x 3.6/2 x 7k = ADDITIONAL 5,040 LPM

Still 3x Dyson air flow assuming 100% efficiency

Again, giving the system the benefit of the doubt, I suppose IF it could supply the equivalent to a 1,400W Dyson (which at 12v is 116 amps! - Note: at this stage you are already down almost 2 BHP - 1.4KW=1.9PS) and you assume a 1.4 bar turbo adds 30% power, then I guess it give in the region of 10% gains. Note: any gain must be offset by the 2 BHP required to run the fan.

But those many assumptions are quite a stretch and in any case the warm air feed from the engine bay and no sign of an intercooler (pretty much mandatory in any useful FI installation) probably negates it all!

As for the 95% efficiency I quoted ("say, 95%"), was simply to get some numbers to play with. In some respects it is irrelevant as the intake efficiency ratio applies to both with and without forced induction.

Ie if it was 60% it would apply to both NA and FI. In which case a lower efficiency actually hurts the FI numbers more (in absolute terms). in fact I would argue that any FI would actually act to lower the aperture efficiencies even further due to greater turbulence and air density.

I look forward to seeing one of these on every car in the near future. And to think VW spent millions on the mini TURBO-SUPERcharger system.

Perhaps the oil companies will buy the patent and condemn us to the stone age (apologies for mixed metaphor etc)

NERD Alert !!!!!!! :floor:

GT4 said:

To give the system the benefit of the doubt, I will also assume that the sytem purely assists airflow (ie it makes relative incremental pressure rather than responsible for 100% of the airflow) - Note: it would still have to allow throughput in excess of 11,250 LPM even with the most minimal FI.

In this case it would need to add 0.4 bar assistance

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Errr.... How do you work that out? Why 0.4 bar assistance to produce 5% more power? I reckon 0.05 bar is about 5% increase in pressure :?:

So, 0.05 x 3.6/2 x 7k = 630 l/min

Easily achievable with a 12 v electric motor running at 25,000 rpm (as they claim). However, I would be a little concerned about the life expectancy of the alternator if it's drawing that current all the time!

Actually, I wouldn't mind betting you'd get the 15 bhp just from that width of intake tract and open paper filter alone... What does a K&N induction kit give you?

GT4 said:

But those many assumptions are quite a stretch and in any case the warm air feed from the engine bay and no sign of an intercooler (pretty much mandatory in any useful FI installation) probably negates it all!

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You don't need an intercooler unless you are substantially pressurising the air: I don't think 0.05 bar will produce a measurable temperature rise tbh :wink:

GT4 said:

I look forward to seeing one of these on every car in the near future. And to think VW spent millions on the mini TURBO-SUPERcharger system.

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I don't think VW spent a single penny (or cent) on the Mini :?: BMW did, though... :wink:

GT4 said:

Perhaps the oil companies will buy the patent and condemn us to the stone age (apologies for mixed metaphor etc)

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I think there are much more elegant ways for a manufacturer to get a 5% power hike :grin:

I'm not saying this thing is a great idea, by the way... I'm just saying that I believe it will do absolutely everything that the manufacturer says it will do... :thumbs:

If some Chav wants their Corsa to have 5 bhp more than their mates, then why not? :grin:

PS. I love the use of duct tape in making the 'Super eRAM electric supercharger :floor: :floor: :floor: