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CarraraWhite
Barcelona


Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1291
Location: England

2011 Porsche 991 Carrera

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reshelled 7RS sold by OPC (Nick Whale Group) as mint! Reply with quote

a shocker of a story from PH.

Quote:
AnjumI will post the details - and pictures - but just need to be clear what I can and cant say. I'll have it posted in the next couple of days.

Sorry - it's a bit long. Get comfy - and enjoy the warmth of my Porsche experience:


11/05/07 Previous owner acquired vehicle – orange Porsche reg EA07 VMC .

05/10/07, car rolled car during track day at Brands Hatch – damage see pictures. Owner uninsured. Local OPC declares car uneconomical to repair - so owner sells to a bodyshop.

Pics Below:

At Track





You tell me where?







June 2008: AW sees car on internet on Porsche approved used cars Centre Leicester then owned by Nick Whale Group, approaches Porsche, as their website says “Mileage and vehicle provenance checks including insurance write off/accident damage** “, he believes the car to be in A1 condition and pays £100,000 (i.e. over list) on 16/06/08.

At PCL:







When picking car up from Porsche Centre Leicester, AW notices during on-site inspection, drivers side wing mirror trim is broken, despite assurances over the phone that the car is immaculate. It is agreed that this will be repaired on return from pre-planned visit to Germany and Belgium.

June 2008 (i.e. less than two days later) Rear windscreen seal fails en route. This is temporarily held in place by tape, performed in Germany. Porsche Centre Leicester notified whilst AW is in Germany, who help to arrange repairs on my return. AW also notes that dashboard is very “noisy” – and informs Porsche Centre Leicester.

July 2008. P C Leister unable to co-ordinate with P C London (Chiswick). AW establishes that PC London (Chiswick) are not authorised to perform repairs on RS models. AW then arranges with PC Reading directly.

July 2008. AW receives car back from Porsche Centre Reading (unclean, with substantial amounts of plaint flecks in the interior with hand prints all over the interior of the rear windscreen). Notices issues with paint, front and rear (overspray, quality, hardening – or lack of). Photographs taken (front bumper and rear engine air inlets) and reported paint “runs” to Porsche Centre Reading , who confirm that paint issues were present when they worked on car.

Paint Issues:






Nov 2008 On reviewing Maintenance documentation, AW notices that the documentation is new and does not have original or previous owners information. I am also made aware of rumours that Porsche was a ‘write off’ through trade contact.

Nov 2008 Porsche Centre West London do a ‘111 Point check’ – all OK (with exception of tyre tread).

Nov 2008 AW calls previous owner, to put his mind at rest as worried about paint defects etc – however, previous owner confirms that the car was damaged beyond economical repair. AW also traces who chain of “keepers” of EA07 VMC – including the non-Porsche approved repairers – all the way to PCL.

Nov 2008 AW called the Principle of Porsche Centre Leicester, to ask tell him of findings and asking him what he was prepared to do remedy the situation. Principle of Porsche Centre Leicester confirms that car was not purchased from last registered owner, but from “someone else”.

Nov 2008. It is suggested that paint defects are down to me – and that I had the car resprayed and am responsible for the poor condition of the paintwork. At this point, I am not getting any satisfaction from the dealer in question – and am alarmed at where conversations are going.

Nov 2008. AW appoints a solicitor. The solicitor’s advice is to immediately reject the car and cease any finance payments. However, as there was finance on the car, case is with Porsche Finance who technically supplied the vehicle not the OPC. Solicitor sends rejection letter to Finance, OPC and Porsche GB. V5 is signed back over to dealer. AW sends the car up to Porsche Centre Leicester so they can inspect the car at their request, along with all vehicle documentation, spare keys, services book etc. Their inspection (carried out by Chartwell) shows minor paint damage “and light, minor damage to the roof rails”. OPC do not accept rejection, Finance and Porsche GB do not respond.

DEC 2008/JAN 2009 AW engages a Porsche specialist to perform an independent inspection. In summary, the findings are that it has been re-shelled.

Jan/Feb 2009. Contact Porsche GB and Porsche AG (Germany) to find out when and to whom the shell was sold to. Porsche GB and Germany refuse to release any information as it is a legal matter.

Mar/Apr 2009. Barrister advises we get another inspection done to check how well the re-shell was done (i.e. torque settings for all of the bolts, tolerances etc.). However no inspection engineer(s) can get information from Porsche as to factory fitting requirements, despite previous assurances that this information can be obtained by the factory.

Mar 2009 – Finally Porsche Finance respond! PF refuse to write off any of the arrears since the rejection and issue a default letter.

Sytner take over Porsche Centre Leics, from Nick Whale group and say that they are not responsible for problem.

PCL offer to buy car back at current market value. Much discussion between solicitors as to what ‘current’ means.

May 2008, AW finally accepts a figure substantially lower than what he paid for car, and has to pay for his own legal bills and all inspections. The alternative would have been protracted court battle, with the possible risk of still ending up with the car and huge arrears and the black mark of the default notice over my head all the time.

Porsche Centre Leicester (now under new ownership) in my opinion failed to appropriately check the provenance, which brings into question what levels of checks the OPC dealer network actually makes.

You may wonder how a car that was re-shelled with a bodyshell supplied by Porsche AG/ Porsche GB, supplied to a non-approved Porsche repairer was sold in the OPC network?

This also has implications for Porsche Finance, who financed a car which is now worth materially less than a original, non-accident repaired example.

June 2009 – Nick Whale contact me asking me for V5 etc……….

Frankly - with what I've experienced - I will never own another Porsche just to stay away from the detritus associated with the brand. I lived the dream - and had a full on nightmare.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=698367

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917k
Magny-Cours


Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 2558
Location: Bromley, kent

2011 Porsche Cayman 987

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats a truly disgraceful tale

Leicester OPC/Nick Whale must have known all about the reshell. They should be in court.
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5668



PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit confused by this... Surely the attached photos are more than sufficient evidence that the car was not as described (and ineligible for the Porsche Assured Used Car programme?)

I'm amazed that was re-shelled actually, as the suspension is clearly knackered all round and there are a lot of damaged components that would have needed replacing as well. Either there is more to that story than we know, or Porsche have really lost the plot when it comes to customer care! nooo

Incidentally, if there was no insurance claim they may just meet the legal requirements of the Used Car Programme, but to refuse to refund once made aware must surely put them in breach of the Sale of Goods Act? The car is clearly not as described and it is debateable whether it is of satisfactory quality either?
 
  
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5798
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does not surprise me and just adds to a VERY long list of reasons why I avoid all OPC's
 
  
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Stuart
General
General


Joined: 16 Sep 2007
Posts: 5079
Location: Waterworld

2004 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should read the full story on PH, shocking!
 
  
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Carrera4S
Paul Ricard


Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 3009



PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

917k wrote:
Thats a truly disgraceful tale

Leicester OPC/Nick Whale must have known all about the reshell. They should be in court.


Nick Whale no longer owns Leicester or Solihull, let's just say the car fell between the cracks Wink
 
  
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 5798
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would seem to indicate that it would be a wise when buying a used car from a OPC that you have it inspected by someone outside their network. Doesn't say much for Porsche as it makes them just another used car dealership IMO.

Quote:
From PH
Quote from Nathan Lucas, Porsche Customer Services, Porsche GB: " Porsche Cars Great Britain Ltd act as importers of new cars. We do not deal with the used approved market, this is left to our Porsche Centres. As a result of this Porsche do not arbitrate in the issues relating to the part exchange of used vehicles and couldn't comment on your experience .... ".


I think it is safe to assume from the above that when buying a used car from an OPC don't expect Porsche GB to step in when things go wrong.

How many of you knew that?
 
  
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5668



PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

apw2007 wrote:
Would seem to indicate that it would be a wise when buying a used car from a OPC that you have it inspected by someone outside their network. Doesn't say much for Porsche as it makes them just another used car dealership IMO.

Quote:
From PH
Quote from Nathan Lucas, Porsche Customer Services, Porsche GB: " Porsche Cars Great Britain Ltd act as importers of new cars. We do not deal with the used approved market, this is left to our Porsche Centres. As a result of this Porsche do not arbitrate in the issues relating to the part exchange of used vehicles and couldn't comment on your experience .... ".


I think it is safe to assume from the above that when buying a used car from an OPC don't expect Porsche GB to step in when things go wrong.

How many of you knew that?


Hmmm.... Don't think they would get away with that in court somehow...

From the Porsche GB website:
Quote:

Owning a Porsche should always be a very special experience, which is why when you buy a Porsche Approved used car we do everything we can to make sure that it really is as good as it looks.

This means you don’t have to worry about whether the car has been properly tested, because our expert Porsche technicians have already put your car through a stringent set of checks for safety, reliability and performance.

You also have the reassurance of knowing that each Porsche Approved car has a 12 month renewable warranty.

For complete peace of mind, we’ve also included Porsche Assistance, your emergency roadside assistance cover to make sure that, should the unexpected happen, you, your passengers and your car will receive the very best treatment.

Every Porsche Approved used car has been prepared to the highest standards by Porsche trained technicians and features the following:


Technical inspection/repair including bodywork and interior restored to Porsche standards
Steering geometry checked and adjusted*
Full service (should one be due within 3,000 miles or 3 months)*
12 months MOT*
Mileage and vehicle provenance checks including insurance write off/accident damage**


They didn't look too hard in this case did they? Question
 
  
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917k
Magny-Cours


Joined: 02 Jun 2003
Posts: 2558
Location: Bromley, kent

2011 Porsche Cayman 987

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damian wrote:
917k wrote:
Thats a truly disgraceful tale

Leicester OPC/Nick Whale must have known all about the reshell. They should be in court.


Nick Whale no longer owns Leicester or Solihull, let's just say the car fell between the cracks Wink


I know, but he did at the time of the sale and susequent issues being discovered
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toff
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 37
Location: tunbridge wells


PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where is this car now i wonder? it no longer appears to be for sale, therefore either someone has bought it, or it's being held back from sale until some of the heat has dissipated. interesting.
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apw2007
Zolder


Joined: 29 Apr 2008
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Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience with 111 point check and warranty, I was left with the impression that they don't do much more than walk around and kick the tyres knowing that when it all falls apart the warranty will pick up the pieces. IMO the last thing you would want to be doing is getting an OPC to carry out the check and then not take their warranty, it could prove to be a costly mistake. However in this case even that wasn't good enough.

And don't forget at the end of the day a OPC is just other used car dealer - although so well wrapped to make you think otherwise.
 
  
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barriejames
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 298
Location: Dover Kent

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would put me off Porsche for life too!!! But if I was spending that sort of cash I would have wanted an hour looking round and I reckon even I could have picked up the paint faults!!!
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Jamie
Reims


Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4311


2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disgusting treatment of the customer.
 
  
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northpole
Monza


Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 201



PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stories like this make my blood boil.

If you buy from an OPC there should be no obligation/ necessity to do anything other than ask the relevant questions; rely on the answers; pay; drive off and enjoy.

If a problem like this can be permitted to exist with support/ collusion from the OPC and ultimately Porsche itself, then heaven help us.

In a case like this, if it is as reported, in my naivety, I would expect Porsche to see to it that a full refund was offered PLUS a gesture for the buggeration caused to the buyer as a consequence of the misrepresentation of the OPC. Porsche should take whatever action is necessary to recover from whomever is ultimately responsible.

But, as we seem to have seen from the debacle over the engine failures, I would be a naive fool to expect such thoughts to be borne out in anything other than my dreams.

Disgraceful.

Peter
 
  
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 5668



PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say that this story is the final nail in the coffin for me as far as 'modern' Porsche ownership is concerned.

There are good and bad dealers out there and it is the manufacturer/distributor's responsibility to ensure that they meet the dealer standards. When the dealer fails the customer, it is therefore the manufacturer/distributors to step in as required to deliver the brand promise - which is crystal clear in the case of a car on the Porsche Approved Used Car Program.

My lottery win car used to be a GT3 RS, but not any more: I don't care how good the car is, if the manufacturer can't be trusted to support me if things go wrong, I'll deal with someone who cares about the customer instead.

I sincerely hope that there is more to this story than we have been told... Over to Porsche to justify their action
 
  
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apw2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wattie wrote:

Over to Porsche to justify their action



If you are concerned about the way Porsche GB and the OPC are behaving why not email Andy Goss and say as much? Don't expect much more than the standard response which is that they will not discuss an individuals case but hopefully they will note peoples concerns - think it's called 'people power' Wink

Andy.goss@porsche.co.uk
 
  
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tim993
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2016 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see this story aired by Honest John in the Saturday motoring Telegraph. If it is as it seems, then I can't imagine Porsche would want this splashed all over the newspaper that I'm sure a good percentage of their current and prospective UK customers read. It may force them to take acton...
 
  
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Pete Hadfield
Suzuka


Joined: 06 Sep 2008
Posts: 1147
Location: 25 miles north of Manchester

2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wattie wrote:
I have to say that this story is the final nail in the coffin for me as far as 'modern' Porsche ownership is concerned.

There are good and bad dealers out there and it is the manufacturer/distributor's responsibility to ensure that they meet the dealer standards. When the dealer fails the customer, it is therefore the manufacturer/distributors to step in as required to deliver the brand promise - which is crystal clear in the case of a car on the Porsche Approved Used Car Program.

My lottery win car used to be a GT3 RS, but not any more: I don't care how good the car is, if the manufacturer can't be trusted to support me if things go wrong, I'll deal with someone who cares about the customer instead.

I sincerely hope that there is more to this story than we have been told... Over to Porsche to justify their action


I'm with you Wattie, however, what car will we end up owning if every manufacturer/dealer network has to be up to the highest standards we require? This is a serious question. Which marque would it be?
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andyc
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only one marque that i know of Pete and that's Lexus
 
  
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Wattie
Zolder


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pete Hadfield wrote:


I'm with you Wattie, however, what car will we end up owning if every manufacturer/dealer network has to be up to the highest standards we require? This is a serious question. Which marque would it be?


To be honest, I don't know of any other manufacturer that would behave this badly - I still can't believe that this guy has lost tens of thousands of pounds from something that should be a no questions asked full refund, plus some compensation and an apology from Porsche. Dont know

I'm still hankering after a Lexus IS F at the moment for an everyday car and I know that Lexus are the BEST at looking after customers.

However, the lottery win car is up for suggestions again now Thumb Maybe I'll start a poll Hand

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