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Porsche
Brands Hatch
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Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Pagid Brakes Pads FAQ Reply with quote

These are an alternative to OEM Pads, on my old 993 I upgraded the fronts to RS42 Blue's which lasted much better then the OEM's and on my current GT3 I've just renewed the fronts with another set of RS29 Yellow's (matching the rear, which is a must).

Although they are classed as race pads, they all work well on different 911's where track days are a regular feature.

As always there are certain features of such pads that you must be aware of before considering their fitment, as in many cases OEM pads are

Porsche OEM pads are perfectly acceptable for road use with the occasional trackday thrown in once in a while. OEM pads also run silently and will not squeal.

With so many Pagid options to choose from here are a listing of the variants. With the RS42 range being the 1st step up from OEM Porsche pads, all the way up through the different colour types.




Racing Compound Characteristics



RS 4-2-1 Black (very similiar to OEM Porsche pads)

High Performance compound with low fading characteristics and high cold friction. The RS 4-2-1 is a most comfortable medium friction compound and very easy on the discs (rotors). Very popular for brake up grades or tuning. It is OE on various Super Sports Cars among others Aston Martin, Bugatti, Ferrari, Lamborgini, Lotus or McLaren. Suitable for street and light track use such as track days or driving education.


RS 4-2 Blue * (1st step upgrade fom OEM Porsche pads)

Medium friction racing compound with immediate low temperature response. Fading resistance up to 500�C ( 930�F). The RS 4-2 beds quickly and has a very good modulation (controllability). It is a classic Rally compound and one of the most commonly used pad in small single-seater (F3, F-Ford, F-BMW, F-Renault etc.). Popular also in showroom stock racing and club racing. Can be used as a rear pad in combination with a higher friction front pad.

RS 4-4 Orange * (Upgrade over RS42 Blue's)
Medium friction racing compound with a higher average friction value than the RS 4-2. It is disc friendly with a predictable, non-aggressive friction behaviour (stable torque). Fading resistance up to 560�C (1,050�F). It is a very good rear compound for touring car applications in combination with RS 14 front pads. Application: Club racing (very popular in Porsche club racing), Touring cars, GT cars and single-seater up to F3.

RS 5 Blue
New medium friction ceramic type racing compound, fading resistant up to 650�C (1,200�F). The RS5's high initial bite combined with the flattest torque curve of all PAGID racing materials guarantees an excellent modulation characteristic and controllability. Very popular in F3 racing. Application: all single-seaters, Touring cars, GT cars, Rally cars.


RS 14 Black *

Medium high friction racing compound with high initial bite, excellent release characteristic, very good modulation (controllability) and due to the high ceramic content low heat conductivity. RS14 has a low wear rate and is fade resistant up to a temperature of 650�C (1,200�F). Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, DP, single-seaters, NASCAR .

RS 15 Grey
High friction racing compound with high content of ceramic materials, fade resistance up to 700�C (1,300�F). It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Although the RS15 has a good controllability and release characteristic it needs finesse to avoid over braking the car, especially with lightweight cars or cars with boosted brakes. Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, high down-force single-seaters, NASCAR.

RS 19 Yellow
Best compound for endurance racing on the basis of the RS14. A slight reduction of the friction value improves the modulation (controllability). Nevertheless, the friction value is enough for cars without power-assisted brake system and ensures comfortable low effort on the brake pedal. Constant temperatures up to 600�C (1,100�F) are possible. The combination of friction value, fading stability and low wear rates on pads and discs (rotors) realised with this material is unmatched up to now. Due to its excellent release characteristics and controllability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. A multiple winner of Daytona 24h, Le Mans 24h, Sebring 12h, Spa 24 h, N�rburgring 24h, often with no pad change and usually no disc (rotor) change. Application: All endurance racing cars from Group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).


RS 29 Yellow * (Highest Spec Pads available)

RS29 combines the outstanding wear rate of the RS19 with a slightly higher coefficient of friction and initial bite. Due to its excellent driveability PAGID endurance materials are also often used for sprint races. Application: All endurance racing cars from group N (Speed-WC, Grand Am Cup), Group A up to GT and Sport-Prototypes (Grand Am DP).




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Porsche
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 13050
Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


From the Pagid Website







Brake Pad Bedding Procedure


Why bedding?

-To transfer a layer of friction material onto the brake disc faces to achieve maximum performance.
-To stabilize compressible materials to avoid a spongy pedal.
-To boil off volatile elements in the friction compound in order to have the initial �green� fading during bedding and not during the race.
-To align the pad surface with the brake disc surface to have full contact. -If pads do not get bedded properly and / or used to hard right out of the box will likely lead to pad glazing. Pad glazing is a condition where the resins in the pad crystallize on both, the pad friction surface and the brake disc surface, resulting in poor stopping performance, brake judder and vibrations.Also rapidly escaping volatile elements and moisture from the resin would seek an immediate escape route out of the friction compound, creating small fissures that would lead shortly to cracking and chunking.
1.) BASIC BEDDING IN
To initiate some heat in the brake discs and pads.
-4 to 6 stops with medium brake pressure from approximately 150 km/h (90 MPH) to approximately 80 km/h (50 MPH).
-Distance between each brake stop approximately 300 - 400 meters (300 to 400 yards).
-The pads should not reach temperatures above 400� Centigrade (550� Fahrenheit).
-No dragging!
-Blocking of the air ducts might be helpful to reach appropriate temperatures quicker. [/list][/u]
2.) IMMEDIATELY AFTER BASIC BEDDING IN AT HIGH SPEED
Simulating race conditions
-One stop with medium to heavy brake pressure, without allowing brakes to lock from approximately 180 km/h (110 MPH) to approximately 80 km/h (50 MPH).
-No dragging!
-Recovery stops with light brake pressure 3 to 4 times. (Cleaning procedure)
-Repeat the high-speed stops including recovery stops 2 to 3 times.
-Allow a cool-off distance of approximately 500 m (500 yards) between high-speed stops.[/list][/u]

NOTE -

If pads do not get bedded properly and / or used to hard right out of the box will likely lead to pad glazing. Pad glazing is a condition where the resins in the pad crystallize on both, the pad friction surface and the brake disc surface, resulting in poor stopping performance, brake judder and vibrations.Also rapidly escaping volatile elements and moisture from the resin would seek an immediate escape route out of the friction compound, creating small fissures that would lead shortly to cracking and chunking.


BRAKE DISCS
If possible, pads should be bedded on used but NOT worn out brake discs. Pagid brake pad material can be used either on solid, grooved or cross-drilled discs. For disc bedding please refer to the disc manufacturers� own instruction.
MOUNTING NEW PADS ON USED DISCS
Edges of pad surface should be filed roughly to 45 degrees to ensure that the pad carries fully and evenly and is not touching the edge of the disc. Do not use discs, which are pre-bedded, or have been used with friction material other than PAGID.



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Last edited by Porsche on Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:25 am; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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smtk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought some EBC red stuff pads and they are squeal city, ocean said that pagid blues are just as good without the squeal

So looks like Im going to go buy a set of blues if after another 100miles the reds still squeal. But I see 2 blues now which is which?

Boo to money wasted Razz

also that bedding in advice they cant be serious i found it hard just to get some good stops

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Brands Hatch
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Joined: 31 Dec 2002
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Location: Nürburgring Nordschleife

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by smtk on 06 April 2007

I just bought some EBC red stuff pads and they are squeal city, ocean said that pagid blues are just as good without the squealSo looks like Im going to go buy a set of blues if after another 100miles the reds still squeal. But I see 2 blues now which is which?Boo to money wasted Razz also that bedding in advice they cant be serious i found it hard just to get some good stops


squal can depend on the fitting as they shouldn't, may just need shims fittings which garages are often guilty of not fitting !! so you pad could have reglazed ?

RS42 Blue's are good one to try, although yours would be better suited to the Oranges at least.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assumed you needed to have the same pad front to rear until I was chatting to Steve McHale in the Auberge last year and he said that he's recommending Oranges for the rear as there's very little heat generated to make the Yellows worthwhile.

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smtk
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Sundeep on 06 April 2007
squal can depend on the fitting as they shouldn't, may just need shims fittings which garages are often guilty of not fitting !! so you pad could have reglazed ?
RS42 Blue's are good one to try, although yours would be better suited to the Oranges at least.



I fitted them myself with Porsche anti squeally shims and I still sound like a London bus

Yesterday i went out and did fast to medium speed braking didnt seem to help. I'll give them another hundred miles

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by smtk on 06 April 2007
I just bought some EBC red stuff pads and they are squeal city, ocean said that pagid blues are just as good without the squeal

So looks like Im going to go buy a set of blues if after another 100miles the reds still squeal. But I see 2 blues now which is which?

Boo to money wasted Razz

also that bedding in advice they cant be serious i found it hard just to get some good stops



EBC Red Stuff have a bedding compound on the pad to help with the squealing when new. Also they have a rubberised backing that should help with vibration related squealing.

Did the anti-squeal shim stick properly to pad, they are adhesive for a reason, that's why Porsche don't recommend using copperslip or Plastilube.

BTW, that's the ideal way to bed in the brakes, although I can understand you might have a few problems in a built up area.

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Rob J
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bedded in the last set at Bedford....no problems Twisted

PS : good post Sundeep we need more like this to address them common questions

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Brands Hatch
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2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my old pad verses new pad !





and the work was done again by SidPorsche, another excellent job in no time whatsoever

.... I can't believe how easy it is to change the brake pads on a 996 !


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Sundeep on 06 April 2007my old pad verses new pad !




and the work was done again by SidPorsche, another excellent job in no time whatsoever
.... I can't believe how easy it is to change the brake pads on a 996 !


It's so easy I carry the tools in the car with me. It's not much longer to replace the discs either. Pads 15mins a corner!

Those pads were down to the brass mountings!!!!!

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Brands Hatch
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2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

new Rs29 Pagid v old Rs29 Pagid, completely used !




note, as I have now learnt unlike normal pads, RS29s need to be changed after they are hald worn and no more than a third left, as after this point unlike normals pads they loose their heat dissipation ability and will thus overheat !




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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Sundeep on 06 April 2007
new Rs29 Pagid v old Rs29 Pagid, completely used !



note, as I have now learnt unlike normal pads, RS29s need to be changed after they are hald worn and no more than a third left, as after this point unlike normals pads they loose their heat dissipation ability and will thus overheat !





I blame the previous owner! Obviously his heavy footedness reduced their life!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so wheres the best place to buy these pagids?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by smtk on 06 April 2007
so wheres the best place to buy these pagids?


I guarantee, that if you don't do the necessary aggressive braking needed to stop RS29/RS19 from squealing you'll fall out with those too.

Apparently rennstore in the US is one of the cheapest, JZM are an official UK supplier.

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Brands Hatch
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hhmm the former owner, heavy foot you say ? but wasnt that the roof !



supplier, try also performance braking somewhere in the UK, mine came from JZ...






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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be useful if other users could state which spec Non-OEM Pads they are using to help others understand the specifications and variants available and any such experiences for this varied topic.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got Pagid Blue in mine, squeals a little but not unbearable, massive improvement in breaking power from cold. One other draw back is more brake dust.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's worth saying that OEM pads are perfectly acceptable for road use with the occasional trackday thrown in once in a while.

OEM pads also run silently and will not squeal.

I would only recommend Pagid pads if the user intends on doing trackdays on a more regular/frequent basis.

Regardless of which brake pads you choose, always ensure the brake lines are in good order and the brake fluid was changed on time. Castrol SRF is the best brake fluid readily available through most channels.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sundeep, how many trackdays did you get out of the yellows, I've been using the blues(Targa) for awhile and they performed very well, I just wondered if the extra cost of the yellows were worth it ?.

Also has anyone looked at group buys for Castrol SRF, pagids, Engine oils etc ?, or the best place/s to buy consumables.

Alex

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Previous poster wrote:
Quote: Originally posted by Algray on 11 April 2007
Sundeep, how many trackdays did you get out of the yellows, I've been using the blues(Targa) for awhile and they performed very well, I just wondered if the extra cost of the yellows were worth it ?.

Also has anyone looked at group buys for Castrol SRF, pagids, Engine oils etc ?, or the best place/s to buy consumables.

Alex


For fluids I use Opie Oils, for pads I'll probably get them from over the pond.

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