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Help needed - vibration qu

JMK

New member
Joined
4 Jul 2005
Messages
42
I have a 2002 996 Targa and the car had developed a vibration and I'd like to know what people suggest to help me identify the cause and fix it.

At all speeds, though naturally more noticeable at speed, a can feel a vibration throughout the car. It's not too severe but is noticeable through the wheel and can be felt through the seat when accelerating or at a constant speed.

I had my wheels refurbished a few months ago and new rear tyres. The wheels have been balanced twice in the last month, once by the refurb co and by a separate company; interesting each company said it was out of balance and the other hadn’t done the balancing properly!

I have 18” split rim sport design wheels. Has anyone heard of these being buckled during a refurb (they were split to do this)?

Any ideas what is the most logical order to investigate further. without racking up too much cost?

Does anyone live near south Cheshire and have a spare set of wheels I could fit and do a short test drive?

Many thanks

Migration info. Legacy thread was 81004
 
Balancing tyres is dependant upon the accuracy of the machine being used and the fitter skill and care.

I have had an apparently ok new tyre balanced due to a vibration and only found out that the tyre was distorted in manufacture when the diligent fitter slowed the machine and raised the cover to watch the tyre rotate - it was shimmying from side to side visually becouse of the distortion.

Check the yellow pages/google for a local performance tyre specialist.

I now use Micheldever tyres who have dedicated bays to do balancing and tracking - too far from you though.

Basic checks should include..
Locking nut fitted opposite to the valve stem.
Wheel seated correctly (clean the hub and mating wheel faces)and nuts torqued to correct setting.


Migration info. Legacy thread was 81035
 
Here is an interesting post from Rennlist about vibrations....

Larry has hit on a big balance problem with later heavy powerful cars with good brakes. Tires moving on the rims. In Potomac this was worked on some time ago and a cure was found.
First off it is good to one time balance the rims. Clean the rim and metal foil tape the weights down and then mark them "Do Not Remove" on the tape. Ball point pen works well on the tape.

To keep the tires from moving on the rims you will need the cooperation of the tire mounting shop/worker as well as some materials.

Shopping list.
1. Rags or sturdy shop rag type paper towels. Lots of them.
2. Mold release solvent such as Toluene. Can get for Home Depot in quarts in the paint section.
3. Unscented hair spray. You can use scented but your car might end up smelling like a 67 year old bluehair in Sunday church. The big cans of Aquanet seem to do the trick and are cheap. The grip is well better than dry mounting and easer on the tires as the hair spray is slippery when wet.

How to do.
1. Start by cleaning the tire bead area with the solvent. Replace the rags often as they load up with the mold release agent. You want to remove the release agent not just smear it around. Then clean the rim bead area with both water and solvent after each of the tires are dismounted. This will remove the previously used soap based lube and any mold release agents.
2. Have the tire mounting guy use the hair spray as the lube when mounting the tires. The entire tire bead area should be sprayed.
3. The hair spray comes off with water if you want to clean the tire up after and to clean the rim between mountings.
4. The longer you wait between mounting and frisky driving the better. 3 days to full cure and grip. Street drive right away. Make a small paint mark that crosses over the tire and rim bead to show any movment.

Cars that were having real problems even with dry mounted tires have had no further tire rotation problems when using the above method. A balanced tire/rim combo that has the tire rotate on the rim is a real handful the more added weight the worse it gets. You can pre clean the tires and have the mounting guy clean the rims if they will not let you work side by side while the tires are being mounted up.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 81036
 
from
http://www.aa1car.com/library/tvibes.htm

Balancing is a must anytime tires are mounted on wheels, and many would argue that it’s also a good idea to rebalance a tire and wheel assembly if a tire has been dismounted for repair.

Balancing provides a smoother ride by minimizing tire bounce. This helps improve traction, steering control and extends the life of the tires. But no matter how carefully the tires are balanced, they’ll eventually lose their balance. As the tread wears, the distribution of weight around the circumference of a tire changes, altering the balance of the tire and wheel assembly. eventually the tire may have to be rebalanced because only 1/4 ounce of imbalance can produce a noticeable vibration.

An out-of-balance tire and wheel will typically create a vibration or shake that becomes progressively worse as the vehicle’s speed increases. The speed at which the vibration first becomes apparent will vary depending on the size and weight of the tires and wheels, the size and weight of the vehicle, the sensitivity of the steering and suspension and the amount of imbalance, but usually starts at 40 to 50 mph and increases in intensity as the speed goes up.

The cure, of course, is to check the balance of all four wheels and tires, and rebalance as needed. But it’s also important to remember that speed-sensitive vibrations can also be caused by radial (vertical) or lateral (sideways) runout in a tire, wheel or hub. Loose, worn or damaged wheel bearings as well as certain kinds of tread wear can also cause vibrations. So too can an out-of-balance or out-of-phase rear-wheel-drive driveshaft (FWD shafts usually don’t rotate fast enough to cause vibration problems.)

When troubleshooting the cause of a speed-sensitive vibration, start by inspecting the tires and wheels. Look for evidence of missing weights, mud or dirt packed in the back of the rim or debris embedded in the tread that could create an imbalance.

Note the amount of wear on the tread. If the tires are more than 50 percent worn, chances are they have not been rebalanced since they were new. Be sure to measure tread depth at several points around the circumference of the tire. This will tell you if the tread is wearing evenly and if the depth is equal. A difference of more than about 1/16 inch would indicate an out-of-round condition.

Most tires should probably have less than .050 inch of radial runout, and some even less depending on how sensitive the vehicle’s steering and suspension (and driver) is to vibration. Runout problems can often be corrected by "match-mounting" the tire on the wheel (rotating the tire so the tire high spot is over the rim low spot). Also, rotate and wiggle each wheel by hand to check for excessive play or noise from the wheel bearings.

Tires can sometimes go out of balance almost immediately if the tire slips (turns) on its rim. This can happen if someone uses a lubricant such as silicone on the tire bead or rim when mounting tires on aluminum alloy wheels. Hard braking or acceleration can cause the tire to rotate on the rim, destroying the original balance.

To accurately balance tires and wheels, you need an up-to-date spin balancer that can achieve both static (at rest) and dynamic (in motion) balance. Old fashioned bubble balancers could do a decent job of achieving static balance, but dynamic balance can only be achieved with a spin balancer. This is especially important with today’s larger, wider, heavier tire and rim packages and absolutely essential for run-flat tires that have thicker, stiffer sidewalls.

Some balancing equipment is capable of detecting runout problems in the tire and wheel assembly as well as vibrations in sidewall stiffness that may cause vibrations. One such balancer applies a roller against the tire to simulate a load on the tire as it rotates. If the unit detects a stiff spot in the sidewall, it tells the operator how to reposition the tire on the wheel so the stiffest part of the tire will be over the lowest point on the rim.

Most balancers today have self-calibrating electronics with accuracy to hundredths of an ounce (or tenths of a gram). Graphical displays also make information easier to read and understand, and reduce the chance of making a mistake. Automatic data entry for wheel width and diameter on some balancers also saves time.

Most balancers today operate at lower speeds. This helps extend motor life and reduces cycle times as well as risk to the operator. Older balancers typically had to spin a wheel fairly fast (about 500 rpm, or the equivalent of 55 to 60 mph) to generate a usable signal. But the more sensitive electronics in today’s balancers are able to pick up vibrations at much lower speeds (only 100 rpm, or 10 to 15 mph).

So, the next time you encounter a vehicle with a speed-related vibration, chances are the tires may need rebalancing.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 81037
 
Wow - great long responses- thanks.

I'll be checking each wheel myself on Sat by taking them off the car and doing a visible inspection. If I can't see anything amiss, I'll consider a further balance (but it's been done 3 times in as many months) or new tyres.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 82328
 
I had the same issue on a 5 series I owned (in fact 2 of them) I had at least 10 balances at different place and it never went.
I went to a garage that had a Hunter Road Force Balancer. It basically replecates a road by running a roller on the tyre as it spins exerting pressure. I wont bore you with the details ut it worked!!
Asit happens,Bentley (where I work) has now basically forced all dealers to buy one of these machine and will not entertain any issues to do with balancing if they dont have one.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 82338
 
This is the place-really good guys too. very careful and the first time I went they didnt even charge me!!! I just gave the guy some cash for a beer.

BMTR
103-115 Walsall Road
Perry Bar
BIRMINGHAM
B42 1TU
Telephone 0121 3311122

Migration info. Legacy thread was 82346
 
Try 4 wheel corner weight balancing too! And full suspension angles setup.

Migration info. Legacy thread was 82416
 
Thanks Guys.

Moving house in 2 weeks so will have to do everything afterwards when I get some spare time.

Philip, I work in Crewe. Is there a local Bently dealer who is friendly and will have the right equipment as I'm not sure of any Porsche specialists rounds here?

Thanks

Migration info. Legacy thread was 84341
 

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