oil catastrophe

jono · 22 Feb 2004

heeeelllppppp......

my 2001 facelift 996 made a clunking and rattling sound then a minute later as i stopped (at home!) the engine error message came up.

when i turned off the engine the oil gushed out at the base of the engine......

naturally i haven't tried to move it......

3 days ago it was serviced by camtune who said it was fine????????????

what's going on?????
postamble();

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James Ball · 22 Feb 2004

Doesn't sond good, does it. Can you see where the oil is actully coming from? I would wonder what Camtune did or didn't do when they last looked at it. I think it is going to be impossible to guess what is wrong - I assume you have booked it in at Camtune for them to look at.

Fingers crossed it is nothing serious.

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jono · 22 Feb 2004

fingers crossed????

its just pissed 10 litres of castrol on the drive.....

if i turn the engine over now it will seize completely - as its got no oil.....

'cos its dry sumped it didn't really effect me until i switched off and the gushing started.

i've got to say that this german supercar has so far shown all the reliability of a '78 allegro, assuming they made 'em then.

time will tell what the outcome is (expensive, i imagine). i've got a 3rd party warranty which may cover me if the garage wriggles out of it.

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bones · 24 Feb 2004

Sounds like someone f**ked the service it might be worth getting an Independent engineer to look at the car before it goes back to them. If the engine was clunking my guess is it's toast. That's not what you want to here so be prepared for the worst and get an engineer and a solicitor on your side who specialise in this sort of litigagation (your insurer or motoring organisation may be able to help) in case Camtune deny responsibility. Ifall was fine before the service then you have a pretty good case based on the evidence.

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jono · 24 Feb 2004

camtune have looked at it, and suggest that its something called an intermediate shaft has broken, nothing to do with their service, and they suggested an independent inspection if required.

currently they are stripping and analysing the engine as we speak. there is a warranty on the car which should cover all parts and some labour, so i'm hopeful it will be repaired. i understand that the big end bearings are very sensitive to damage and will more than likely have to be replaced.

its gonna be a big claim and rumour has it the warranty companys will be none too happy and may well insist on a second opinion.

ps how much is a new engine for a C2 from porsche?? anyone know??

to say this has put me off porsche's and they're -ahem - less than perfect engineering is an understatement....

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bones · 24 Feb 2004

Bad news but I would chase Camtune , it's too much of a coincidence that the car falls to bits a few days after you get it back from service. Put this arguement to them .

How many miles did you (I) drive it after you (I) received it back from them (you) . Not many at this time of year , in other words if you lived much further away you could have actually been driving back from the service when the engine went tits up. What do they (you) have to say about that?
If they churn out the same arguement then you are dealing with people who don't give a damn about providing service.
I don't need to defend Porsche 's engineering history but try to think less emotionally and more logically about your case and you stand a better chance of winning it I know it's hard , I've been there too.

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jono · 24 Feb 2004

i've just found out that a new engine is around £11,000....

i drove it around 90 miles after they delivered the car back to me.

does anyone know any good consulting engineers that could double check camtunes work as i think it may be an idea if it was inspected with an independent third party present??

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trool · 24 Feb 2004

Forgive me striking a contrasting note here, but before we get too hard on Camtune, what exactly do people think they might have done (or not done) to cause this problem?

If they had left the sump plug or the oil filter loose or something then fair game, but I cannot see that if the engine still contained all its oil at the time of failure there is anything that they would have done on a routine service that would promote the likelihood of a failure of this type. And, if they had disturbed something enough to cause a catastrophic failure, then it would normally happen by the end of the road, not after 90 miles.

Plus having met the guys there a couple of times I would say they were unusually honest and straightforward by motor trade standards.

Sounds like unlucky coincidence to me. Good job the warranty will cover most of the cost...good luck getting it all sorted. If the warranty co wants an independent second opinion I would suggest they pay for it.

Regards

Matthew

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bones · 24 Feb 2004

Wonder if you'd be thinking the same if it as your car? Doesn't sound anything like coincidence to me. Having said that in the interest of fairness perhaps Jono could tell us what the car was in for and if he had the slightest idea that anything might be wrong before he took it to them.

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jono · 25 Feb 2004

yes i agree - i'm not being hard on Camtune, they appear to have been straight with me and offered to have an independent engineer inspect their work.

the inspection is also to ensure that the 3rd party warranty company doesn't weasel out of their obligations. i suspect they don't replace too many 911 engines too often.

there's a huge numbe of "if's" here....

1. if the engines buggered then it needs replaceing, else much smaller bills.

2. if the warranty co. pays up, no problemo.

3. if the servicing is ship-shape no problemo. (and i've no reason to suspect otherwise, but with £11,000 at stake, you can be sure i'm going to be careful).

That porsche only offers a standard 2 year warranty on their cars is shabby, and would put me off buying a further porsche. Should I be able to afford one at the end of this farrago.

For bones the car was having a minor service at 16,000 miles - it had done 9000 since the previous service (by a certain Porsche A.G of Germany, its previous owners!)

i've had the car for 9 months and apart from new tyres and a sqeaky windscreen has never had any problems whatsoever, and there was no discernable oil use.

furthermore i drive sensibly, and i don't nail it - some of you may have passed me doing about 40!!

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bones · 25 Feb 2004

From what you said about the car's behaviour previous to the service it's all the more reason to suspect something went amiss there Rarely do Porsches or any modern engine just give up the ghost.

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poon · 25 Feb 2004

Bad luck, 996's arn't a bullet proof as earlier cars.

Talk to JZ Machtech, get a second opinion, as Bones said porsche engines don't just give up the ghost, however it could be an unhappy co-incidence, as there isn't much in a standard service to tinker with let alone cause the interthingy shaft to go, presumably its punched a hole in the case as oil is everywhere?

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Used Porsche · 25 Feb 2004

You say this car has done 16000 miles and only 9000 since Porsche AG serviced it?

My advice is to have Porsche UK inspect the car on behalf of Porsche AG. This failure, from the posts so far, is an exceptional failure at low milage for which Porsche should be prepared to contribute all or a large proportion of the cost. The component failure which caused this should be of intense interest to Porsche from a quality perspective. Porsche will know how many other failures of the faulty component have occured if any.

In summary, go for Porsche not Camtune.

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Carrera · 26 Feb 2004

Jono, I really hope you don't get too put off Porsches because of this very unfortunate incident. I'm sure it's not a common occurance with Porsche engines, and as Stevo said, Porsche AG should be keen to know about it at this milage. Just make sure you speak to the right person!

I can't imagine what Camtune could have done/not done to cause the damage if it was only a simple service.

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jono · 7 Mar 2004

update on oil catastrophe...

the problem seems to be a roller bearing that has collapsed, resulting in the intermediate shaft snapping and swarf travelling around the engine.

basically a 16,000 mile 2-and-a-half year old supercar has effectively destroyed its engine. this doesn't reflect very well on Porsche AG and their much lauded quality control.

i'm certainly regretting buying the 'effing thing!

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