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bbvet
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Joined: 01 Jan 2012
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Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:23 pm    Post subject: Fed up with hard shocks Reply with quote

I have KW shocks adjusted to their most compliant setting on my 993 C2S, ride height is v slightly lower than stock. With the state of the roads I find myself wincing before passing over the slightest inconsistency in surface and would like some advice on what shocks and springing people are using for non track weekend driving?

Apologies if this type of thread has been done recently, do please point me in the right direction if it has!

With thanks.
Ben
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pierrebear
Spa-Francorchamps


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the general consensus is to take it over to Centre Gravity who will give you an honest appraisal. I had Christian Sanger do a complete suspension overhaul. Now running at RS ride height +10mm, with mostly RRS suspension bits albeit with Konis.

The ride is sporty and composed, but forgiving over rougher surfaces too.
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berni29
Indianapolis


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Location: Kent


PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi There

I'm not saying anything is right or wrong, but what I did was pair Bilstein shocks with some standard (but good condition and tested) M029 springs, but all set at sport height by CG.

My thinking having come from Lotuses, was to pair long relatively soft springs, with firm dampers. M029 are the same spring rate as the shorter M033, the difference in length being dialled out by the adjustability of the spring platforms on the dampers. So put another way, my car is at sport (M033) height but using standard (M029) springs.

I think it works very well.

Berni
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Robertb
Dijon


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
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Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above... softer springs.... I read in a test of 996 suspension that CG pair Ohlins with softer springs as the otherwise ride is very harsh. I was surprised by the much lower relative Nm rate of the M030s vs the Ohlins coilovers.

Stiff anti roll bars can also make a car ride feel firm.
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911UK
Porsche Community
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stick to standard engine mounts

M033 springs are the most comfortable

avoid imported Bilstein HD shocks

ultimately you'll have to raise the ride height
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Counter Of Beans
Montreal


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 527
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My car is off to Center Gravity (sic) soon; I have opted for Koni Special Actives with M033 springs. I'm assured this will give a reasonably compliant ride with decent control. I will not venture on to a track, but, like the OP, I do not want a harsh ride in every day driving.
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Luddite
Hockenheim


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 649
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbvet, good to see you are pretty relaxed about Covid 19 in your avitar...(-:

My thinking is well out of date, and I have typed a few times on the surprising difference I experienced in suspension on my first drive in a 993 compared to my non-sport 911 SC, which had 15 inch wheels, whereas the SC Sport had 16" wheels both 911s with the same rolling radius (overall tyre diameter) The difference in tyre wall width (aspect ratio).

Between these two 911s the difference in handling vs comfort were considerable, the sport being much sharper with more bump and thump, whereas the non-sport took longer to settle into any corner determined by it`s higher degree of tyre sidewall flex, but took the pot holes with far less shock...The non sport had Boge shockers and the Sport has Bilstines if I remember correctly..?

When I walked up to the 993 for my first drive, I observed by comparison the very narrow sidewalls on it`s tyres as standard, and prepared myself for a bit of a harsh ride.... Wrong... it was far superior in both comfort and handling to any 911 I had ever driven... (I have not driven a water-cooled version) Though time and style preferences seem to have had folk modifying their suspension to drop the ride height and fit ever larger diameter wheels and at the same time reducing the tyre aspect ratio, to look like something close to a rubber band in order to retain the same rolling radius and not to affect gearing and speedo read outs..?

I have read on this forum of 993 windscreen creaking and structural cracking on what are now old sports cars, whether such tyre/wheel/suspension modifications played any part or not..and on the pot holed roads of today.....?

However I suspect that when Porsche designed the 993 as an express carriage /sports car, they did so with a reasonable degree of compliance in the suspension without any real compromise to the handling, however it seems ever the way for folk to wish to"improve" this that and the other by modifying standard equipment to suit more their personal desires, perhaps forgetting that race car design and priorities may seem less than ideal on the road in so very many ways, perhaps not contemplated before splashing the cash...?

But then I suspect you may already know all of that..Apologies if I appear to be trying to teach you to suck eggs...(-:. Good luck in your search for improvement..and I hope this ramble is of some worth to you..(-:
 
  
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Darthmjh
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2017
Posts: 52
Location: NW London


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counter Of Beans wrote:
My car is off to Center Gravity (sic) soon; I have opted for Koni Special Actives with M033 springs. I'm assured this will give a reasonably compliant ride with decent control. I will not venture on to a track, but, like the OP, I do not want a harsh ride in every day driving.


That's the setup I had when I went to CoG. Gives a great ride. Bilstein HDs were fitted previously but I found them to stiff for me.
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911UK
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

running 17" wheels will also improve the ride quality Thumb
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Pickled Piper
Suzuka


Joined: 07 Aug 2004
Posts: 1110
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, what tyre pressures ae you running? You can often increase the vertical compliance by dropping the tyre pressures slightly. This can literally take the "edge" off potholes.

Always worth a try before throwing money at it.
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Montreal


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 527
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

911UK wrote:
running 17" wheels will also improve the ride quality Thumb


True, but 18 inch "Twist" wheels just look sooooooo nice. I for one couldn't resist!
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bbvet
Trainee


Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Posts: 87
Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I’m not going to Centre of Gravity as I try to do all the maintenance locally. But they obviously know plenty about tuning the ride on a 993. I wonder what the difference between the Konis and the Bilsteins is in ride, also I’m slightly baffled with the the different spring lengths for the same ride height.

I’m really fed up with the harsh ride on mine, to the point I’ve stopped using it. I no longer do track days in it, opting for something front engined and more predictable on the limit, so the KW’s are really the wrong shock for me now.

I see there’s several sets of original (Monroe?) shocks on eBay and as I’m halfway through a couple of other projects (Alfa GTV money pit and BMW M5 re-creation) I’m keen to try some of these on the cheap. Before I ask my local mechanic, do any of you have any experience of refurbing these shocks? Or is this idea a false economy?

Thanks again for all your advice and opinions.
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pierrebear
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Posts: 350
Location: Jersey


PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m no expert mate but from what I’ve heard, the stock Monroes are limited in lifespan and very old technology even by 1990s standards. I’m really happy with the Konis. There are relatively economic bargains to be had - some occasionally come up on here (I got mine from 911UK himself...thanks again!). Gert Carnewal also often has offers on Koni and Bilstein B6 parts and I’d recommend him thoroughly as a marque and 993 enthusiast who’s worth looking up.
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1438
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re spring rates and ride height.
I've just changed my 944 fronts (Koni coil over) for Gaz Gold.
The Konis came with 12" 200lb/in
Gaz Gold with 8" 300 lbs/in
At same ride height Konis were at bottom of adjustment Gaz Gold at the top.
I've just bought 10" Eibachs @250 lb/in. So basically the wire is the same in all. Shorter = stiffer.
On the 993 I run PSS10s firm but not too much.
I did run Bilstein Hds I found them harsh compared to original Monroes which was like riding a pogo stick.
So basically spring choice is most important, depends on use ,weight and ride height. Then a good shock to match, adjustable if you want but if the spring is too stiff then however soft you run the shock it'll still be uncomfortable and possibly dangerous.
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ellistai
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 275


1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see many reviews on the new factory shocks offered by Porsche Classics. I am sure they are very pricey but also curious to know how good they are.

They are made by Bilstein, but are they exactly the same as HD?

If OP is looking into shocks, perhaps you may want to check on that as well.
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bbvet
Trainee


Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Posts: 87
Location: Cotswolds


PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endoman wrote:
Re spring rates and ride height.
I've just changed my 944 fronts (Koni coil over) for Gaz Gold.
The Konis came with 12" 200lb/in
Gaz Gold with 8" 300 lbs/in
At same ride height Konis were at bottom of adjustment Gaz Gold at the top.
I've just bought 10" Eibachs @250 lb/in. So basically the wire is the same in all. Shorter = stiffer.
On the 993 I run PSS10s firm but not too much.
I did run Bilstein Hds I found them harsh compared to original Monroes which was like riding a pogo stick.
So basically spring choice is most important, depends on use ,weight and ride height. Then a good shock to match, adjustable if you want but if the spring is too stiff then however soft you run the shock it'll still be uncomfortable and possibly dangerous.


So if I change from my M033 springs to M029s but keep the KW shocks (adjusted to their most compliant setting), this should give me a softer ride. Does anyone know how much this will raise the ride height?
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911UK
Porsche Community
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 10423
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbvet wrote:
Endoman wrote:
Re spring rates and ride height.
I've just changed my 944 fronts (Koni coil over) for Gaz Gold.
The Konis came with 12" 200lb/in
Gaz Gold with 8" 300 lbs/in
At same ride height Konis were at bottom of adjustment Gaz Gold at the top.
I've just bought 10" Eibachs @250 lb/in. So basically the wire is the same in all. Shorter = stiffer.
On the 993 I run PSS10s firm but not too much.
I did run Bilstein Hds I found them harsh compared to original Monroes which was like riding a pogo stick.
So basically spring choice is most important, depends on use ,weight and ride height. Then a good shock to match, adjustable if you want but if the spring is too stiff then however soft you run the shock it'll still be uncomfortable and possibly dangerous.



So if I change from my M033 springs to M029s but keep the KW shocks (adjusted to their most compliant setting), this should give me a softer ride. Does anyone know how much this will raise the ride height?


should be

10mm at the front and 20mm at the rear
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berni29
Indianapolis


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2347
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Within reason and assuming nothing is bottoming out or you are not changing the geometry much then the ride height has not a lot to nothing to do with compliance or comfort.

It will affect steering geometry significantly though if outside of certain limits.

So with my set up and M029 springs, I will feel no difference in respect to the ride being hard or soft if its set to standard or sport height.

All the best

Berni
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Nik
Österreich


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 914
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what it’s worth, I had pole position seats in mine, so less comfort/padding in the seat and had a long debate about what suspension to go for.

I ended up with Koni FSDs, MO33 springs and RS-spec rubber bushes. For me it was the perfect blend of compliance and sportiness. Genuinely pleased with the overall combination. Christian is the man to speak with IMHO.
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1375
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nik wrote:

I ended up with Koni FSDs, MO33 springs and RS-spec rubber bushes. For me it was the perfect blend of compliance and sportiness. Genuinely pleased with the overall combination. Christian is the man to speak with IMHO.


For the road the above setup is perfect IMHO, mine feels sublime esp after set-up at CoG

Trev
 
  
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