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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:23 pm    Post subject: Oil Level on 991.1 Post Oil Change - Fault? Reply with quote

Hi guys,

Just had my car delivered back from the OPC after an Oil Change and I took it for a lovely 70 mile dash with plenty of throttle and some high rev use. Upon arriving home, I was more than a little surprised to see the oil level warning pop up to say it was on minimum. Rather odd. So did the 'stealership not put enough oil in?


On their advice I added 0.5 litres of Mobil 1 to test the level sensor hasn't gone AWOL (because it couldn't be the technician, sir. It's checked twice, sir). Hey presto, it pops up to two bars. This tells me that the oil sensor is working just fine and they didn't put enough oil in.



I'm concerned that they want to come and collect the car to check it out rather than giving me some oil and admitting their fault. Or are they worried it's leaking oil? Has anyone else had this?
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Cameo
Monza


Joined: 27 Dec 2015
Posts: 151
Location: South Coast


PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly seems they got it wrong. I’ve never seen my oil level that low.

They don’t fill it to the top bar because, as I understand it, the oil will expand when hot and thereby increase volume - especially if you do any track work.
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911Time
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 295
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming there's no evidence of a leak, I'd say pound to a penny they've just not added sufficient oil. Mistakes happen, we're all human, but if they have dropped the ball then I'd expect them to own up.

Thankfully there's a large volume of oil and it's all fresh, so no harm should be done.

I'd let them collect it to 'check it out' but want to get to the bottom of the situation and expect a call from the service manager.

Hope it's sorted to your satisfaction.
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Mark


I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink

Current: GT Silver 991.1 C4S with a few 'special bits'. Previous Owned: C63 Estate, BMW e92 330d Coupe (700Nm/Custom Exh/Map/BBK/Quaife/Breytons), ML63AMG, Alpina e46 B3S Coupe, Alpina e36 B3 Coupe, Lotus Excel SE, Alfasud Green Cloverleaf Ti, Lancia HPE, Capri 2.0S, Marina 1.8 (don't laugh it was my first road car). Bikes: Suzuki TL1000R and BMW R1100S AC Schnitzer.
 
  
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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guys. My biggest concern is that with me only putting in half a litre, that they under filled it by nearly 2 litres (the manual says that's min to max)! Oh and they charged me for 8 litres at £17.05 per litre (or £136.40)..... When the manual says 7.5 litres is the max! nooo
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Last edited by Mad Mark911 on Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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911Time
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 295
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, being asked to pay for 8 litres, when the car can't take more than 7.5, that's cheeky, to say the least...esp as it would appear they may have only added 5.5 Surprised

Interested to hear what they have to say in the end.

Best of luck Thumb
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Mark


I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink

Current: GT Silver 991.1 C4S with a few 'special bits'. Previous Owned: C63 Estate, BMW e92 330d Coupe (700Nm/Custom Exh/Map/BBK/Quaife/Breytons), ML63AMG, Alpina e46 B3S Coupe, Alpina e36 B3 Coupe, Lotus Excel SE, Alfasud Green Cloverleaf Ti, Lancia HPE, Capri 2.0S, Marina 1.8 (don't laugh it was my first road car). Bikes: Suzuki TL1000R and BMW R1100S AC Schnitzer.
 
  
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HSC911
Dijon


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 7315
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do they not give you the 1L bottle of oil in the frunk anymore Dont know

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Norfolk & Idea
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1736
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
Do they not give you the 1L bottle of oil in the frunk anymore Dont know

Thumb


I've just got a 991 and no come to think of it.... Dont know

OP, as already intimated. They dropped a bollock. School boy error. It happens I guess. Could have been worse, could have been overfilled....
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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norfolk & Idea wrote:
HSC911 wrote:
Do they not give you the 1L bottle of oil in the frunk anymore Dont know

Thumb


I've just got a 991 and no come to think of it.... Dont know

OP, as already intimated. They dropped a bollock. School boy error. It happens I guess. Could have been worse, could have been overfilled....


Well I have checked the frunk and there is no 1 litre bottle (in the nice Porsche branded black bag with the gloves and the absorbent tissue), so it appears not. This would have been helpful when they asked me to top it up too.

They've asked me about smoke and oil leaks too (there are neither), so while they are telling me that they are worried about the sensor and overfilling, I think they are still looking for other explanations. Pinched Oil Seal or Oil Filter not on tight enough would be my guess ..
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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This online manual is interesting to nose around (although possibly US focussed): http://www.porscheownersmanuals.com/2012-911-carrera-manual/6/265/Driving-performance-Technical-data

Oil Capacity is 7.5 litres .....
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911Time
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 295
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they filled it to capacity during the service and there was a leak afterwards, then it would have had to leak c2 litres between collection and when you added 500ml to determine whether the sensor was faulty. I know you had a 70 mile drive but the amount of oil being expelled would be fairly obvious.

It seems most likely that they just didn't fill it with enough.

FWIW mine didn't come with the spare litre of oil and I had to but it and the soft pouch myself.
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Mark


I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink

Current: GT Silver 991.1 C4S with a few 'special bits'. Previous Owned: C63 Estate, BMW e92 330d Coupe (700Nm/Custom Exh/Map/BBK/Quaife/Breytons), ML63AMG, Alpina e46 B3S Coupe, Alpina e36 B3 Coupe, Lotus Excel SE, Alfasud Green Cloverleaf Ti, Lancia HPE, Capri 2.0S, Marina 1.8 (don't laugh it was my first road car). Bikes: Suzuki TL1000R and BMW R1100S AC Schnitzer.
 
  
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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

911Time wrote:
If they filled it to capacity during the service and there was a leak afterwards, then it would have had to leak c2 litres between collection and when you added 500ml to determine whether the sensor was faulty. I know you had a 70 mile drive but the amount of oil being expelled would be fairly obvious.

It seems most likely that they just didn't fill it with enough.

FWIW mine didn't come with the spare litre of oil and I had to but it and the soft pouch myself.


That's what I'm thinking. In fact I believed that from the start.
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911Time
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 295
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if it were me, I'd let them have it back 'just to check it over' (though I think that's more about them being seen to do the right thing, than any genuine concern there's any sort of problem).

I'd be asking why I was overcharged for the oil and ask for 2 litres FOC to keep on one side - as good will and 'just in case'...

Thumb
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Mark


I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink

Current: GT Silver 991.1 C4S with a few 'special bits'. Previous Owned: C63 Estate, BMW e92 330d Coupe (700Nm/Custom Exh/Map/BBK/Quaife/Breytons), ML63AMG, Alpina e46 B3S Coupe, Alpina e36 B3 Coupe, Lotus Excel SE, Alfasud Green Cloverleaf Ti, Lancia HPE, Capri 2.0S, Marina 1.8 (don't laugh it was my first road car). Bikes: Suzuki TL1000R and BMW R1100S AC Schnitzer.
 
  
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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

911Time wrote:
I think if it were me, I'd let them have it back 'just to check it over' (though I think that's more about them being seen to do the right thing, than any genuine concern there's any sort of problem).

I'd be asking why I was overcharged for the oil and ask for 2 litres FOC to keep on one side - as good will and 'just in case'...

Thumb


Spot on and that's what I've done, because I have used my last half litre of "top up oil" just to check their mistake .... wack
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911Time
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 295
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a plan Thumb Will be interesting to hear what they say when you collect.

Like I said earlier, we all know mistakes can happen but when they do why not just own up, or at least entertain the possibility that someone 'may' have dropped the ball.

Some years back we had my partner's car serviced by a local independent - I'd always looked after the car in the past but wasn't up to it physically at the time. I knew the car back to front, so wasn't expecting any surprises. When my partner collected it and returned home, she said the brakes felt unsafe and were making a noise.

I took it for a test drive but only drove a few feet before realising there was something very seriously wrong. Took it very carefully back to the garage the following morning and told them the rear drum brakes hadn't been adjusted correctly and there was something loose in the drum.

They denied that could happen, 'matter of safety', 'always checked' etc - utter BS.

When I collected it that evening, I was told they couldn't find anything wrong however when I drove the car, the pedal was much firmer and the handbrake only came up 3 notches (both clear signs the rear drums had been adjusted) and the noise had gone.

When I was better, I stripped the brakes and found part of the adjuster mechanism was missing.... Mad

Why do people/companies do this? Why not just say, 'we're very sorry - we've made a mistake and we've fixed it'??

I was so angry at the time, thinking how my other half could have had a crash and if she/I had accepted their word, would have been driving an unsafe car... Mad Mad

Let us know how you get on.
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Mark


I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink

Current: GT Silver 991.1 C4S with a few 'special bits'. Previous Owned: C63 Estate, BMW e92 330d Coupe (700Nm/Custom Exh/Map/BBK/Quaife/Breytons), ML63AMG, Alpina e46 B3S Coupe, Alpina e36 B3 Coupe, Lotus Excel SE, Alfasud Green Cloverleaf Ti, Lancia HPE, Capri 2.0S, Marina 1.8 (don't laugh it was my first road car). Bikes: Suzuki TL1000R and BMW R1100S AC Schnitzer.
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7962
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off let me just say i fix these cars for a living and whilst not at OPC these days i know full well what a pain they can be to get the lvl correct .

2 Litres down .. it won't have affected the engine .

When we drain these then the longer its left draining then the more we will get out .. a short drain of 10 mins will probably only get 6 - 7 ltrs out .

I feel though that 8 liters is a standard charge .. all of us garages have a standard charge .. whether we have 7.5 or 8 on the invoice then it's probably still a set price service charge .. the amount of oil is just a number .

Now then .. these are a total pain to get right and i know exactly what has gone wrong here ..

You have to get the oil temp upto over 90 degrees .. you have to leave the ignition on for over 2 mins to get a live reading .. a road test often does not get a live reading in most cases .. especially at this time of year when its cold and probably a short 2 mile road test as is the OPC way .

The mechanic has not let it get hot enough basically .. in this case it just displays the original oil lvl and not the actual reading after the oil change .

personally i hate this system .. Macans are the worst .. they actually say engine hot and this is the lvl .. it lies .. its not as i found out to my cost .

You have no idea how bad it feels to be told you have done something wrong .. a waiting oil change ,.. customer wanting the car back and what i thought was the correct lvl was the car displaying the old lvl .. 1 ltr down we found out after we had the car back .

made me feel like i was useless ..

Honest answer here as it happens to all of us with this dam stupid system .
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1498
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't disagree with the comments that the electronic oil level is a right pain in the ass to get right.

Bring back the humble old-fashioned dipstick. Thumb
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Norfolk & Idea
Albert Park


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1736
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
First off let me just say i fix these cars for a living and whilst not at OPC these days i know full well what a pain they can be to get the lvl correct .

2 Litres down .. it won't have affected the engine .

When we drain these then the longer its left draining then the more we will get out .. a short drain of 10 mins will probably only get 6 - 7 ltrs out .

I feel though that 8 liters is a standard charge .. all of us garages have a standard charge .. whether we have 7.5 or 8 on the invoice then it's probably still a set price service charge .. the amount of oil is just a number .

Now then .. these are a total pain to get right and i know exactly what has gone wrong here ..

You have to get the oil temp upto over 90 degrees .. you have to leave the ignition on for over 2 mins to get a live reading .. a road test often does not get a live reading in most cases .. especially at this time of year when its cold and probably a short 2 mile road test as is the OPC way .

The mechanic has not let it get hot enough basically .. in this case it just displays the original oil lvl and not the actual reading after the oil change .

personally i hate this system .. Macans are the worst .. they actually say engine hot and this is the lvl .. it lies .. its not as i found out to my cost .

You have no idea how bad it feels to be told you have done something wrong .. a waiting oil change ,.. customer wanting the car back and what i thought was the correct lvl was the car displaying the old lvl .. 1 ltr down we found out after we had the car back .

made me feel like i was useless ..

Honest answer here as it happens to all of us with this dam stupid system .


Slightly off piste but relevant to the topic.

I run a Ducati V4S as a track bike therefore change the oil very regularly. Due to a multi baffle arrangement inside the sump, getting the oil level right on the sightglass is a right pita. It can take up to 36 hours to settle.

Soooo, what I do nowadays is check level, drop the oil overnight, weigh it and put back same weight of fresh oil (Motul 300). Jobs a good un Thumb Can't go wrong.... Probably....
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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK - so the update is that they are coming to collect it tomorrow afternoon on a covered trailer! They still think it's the sensor, so they're potentially going to replace it.

Oh and they're going to give me a couple of "top up" litre packs and give the car a really good clean, inside and out. Hopefully better than the service wash which I complained could have been better done by a child with a blindfold and an arm behind it's back. Rolling Eyes

Oh and on 911 Times story. My first car was an MG Midget and I collected it having just had a service and a whole load of work done on the vehicle. I got about 5 miles down the road to see the temperature gauge fly into the red then drop off the scale. I pulled over immediately and phoned the garage. Turns out that they'd forgotten to refill the engine with coolant. Oh how we laughed! Shooter
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Mad Mark911
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2011
Posts: 182
Location: Maidenhead


PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
First off let me just say i fix these cars for a living and whilst not at OPC these days i know full well what a pain they can be to get the lvl correct .

2 Litres down .. it won't have affected the engine .

When we drain these then the longer its left draining then the more we will get out .. a short drain of 10 mins will probably only get 6 - 7 ltrs out .

I feel though that 8 liters is a standard charge .. all of us garages have a standard charge .. whether we have 7.5 or 8 on the invoice then it's probably still a set price service charge .. the amount of oil is just a number .

Now then .. these are a total pain to get right and i know exactly what has gone wrong here ..

You have to get the oil temp upto over 90 degrees .. you have to leave the ignition on for over 2 mins to get a live reading .. a road test often does not get a live reading in most cases .. especially at this time of year when its cold and probably a short 2 mile road test as is the OPC way .

The mechanic has not let it get hot enough basically .. in this case it just displays the original oil lvl and not the actual reading after the oil change .

personally i hate this system .. Macans are the worst .. they actually say engine hot and this is the lvl .. it lies .. its not as i found out to my cost .

You have no idea how bad it feels to be told you have done something wrong .. a waiting oil change ,.. customer wanting the car back and what i thought was the correct lvl was the car displaying the old lvl .. 1 ltr down we found out after we had the car back .

made me feel like i was useless ..

Honest answer here as it happens to all of us with this dam stupid system .


deMort! OK so I know of you and your reputation, so I trust what what you're saying to be correct, but then why didn't they do what I'm suggesting and just send me some oil to top it up? And yes it took 7 miles to reach normal operation of 95 degrees on the oil temp.
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7962
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would hazard a guess at the blame game culture .. when we admit a mistake these days there seems to be a claim for compensation and as such excuses are made or other components blamed for the fault to safeguard against this .

Technically there could be an argument for a replacement engine although as i said no damage will occur at this level of oil .

I'm in no way pointing a finger here .. merely trying to explain how it seems to work these days and imho .

I'm just a mechanic though .. i'm not an expert , i'm just the same as most other mechanics i feel .. the only difference is i post here .

I expect it will be a sender unit fault that's replaced or a one off and you are asked to monitor it.
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She's not going until july 2020 though .



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