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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 582
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:49 pm    Post subject: Blue 993 carrera 4..? Reply with quote

Anybody on here know who owns this blue ex flood damaged (?) 993 reg R428 LVD ?
 
  
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pierrebear
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Posts: 330
Location: Jersey


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure who owns it but am pretty certain it was listed on here and pistonheads a little while ago.
_________________
1995 Carrera 2 coupe manual, midnight blue
EX 997.1 Carrera 4S coupe manual, basalt black
EX 2003 Mercedes SL500, green black (dark blue!)
 
  
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 582
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for taking the time to reply Pierrebear.

I remembered there had been a 993 C4 on here perhaps a year or so advertised for quite some time with references to it having been the result of a flood damage insurance claim and returned to use, priced around £30k if my memory serves, don`t remember it appearing as sold ..?

I suspect the insurance thinking these days on flood damaged cars is to write them off given possible contamination issues, sewage rats etc.etc...? That older flood damaged "cat" cars which have been "repaired" former are not allowed to change over to "private" plates may further reduce their values, given it seems a repaired "cat" car may expect to be valued circa 30% below market...?

A pal looked at a what seemed like very recoverable flood damaged white 991 recently, which other than mechanicals was sentenced to be crushed by the ins co..!

Interesting hmm.. Question
 
  
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stichill99
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 432
Location: Scottish Borders


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject: 993 Reply with quote

Is that the car that is up at auction with the RS spoilers?
 
  
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 582
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is.. Thumb
 
  
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stichill99
Nürburgring


Joined: 03 Nov 2013
Posts: 432
Location: Scottish Borders


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:12 pm    Post subject: 993 Reply with quote

It looks lovely in the photos in the auction catalogue!
 
  
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pierrebear
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Posts: 330
Location: Jersey


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it is being auctioned are you able to get to it for an inspection/have one carried out? I have come around to the view that a "cat" car is acceptable if the price is right (and I think a circa 30% reduction is about right). Obviously helps immensely if you know exactly what went wrong and how it was resolved (perhaps most importantly by whom!)
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1995 Carrera 2 coupe manual, midnight blue
EX 997.1 Carrera 4S coupe manual, basalt black
EX 2003 Mercedes SL500, green black (dark blue!)
 
  
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 582
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it looks great BUT like the former flood damaged and repaired C4 that was advertised on here a while back, the photographer was rather skilled.

My thinking is that additionally skilled use of language can create an impression that may differ from a reality not imagined... It would seem that it may have had the bumper supports replaced.. if for reasons of corrosion.. what else may be in need of attention, box sections previously filled with flood water etc..? How deep was the flooding it suffered to be classified as a "cat" ..? Sure I have driven around in patchwork cars for many years but I did not pay BIG bucks for them, and not in a market that seems to have become a tad risky in more recent times.. Question
 
  
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phib
Newbie


Joined: 11 Jan 2019
Posts: 36
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Blue 993 carrera 4..? Reply with quote

Luddite wrote:
Anybody on here know who owns this blue ex flood damaged (?) 993 reg R428 LVD ?


Yes .. Me.

Happy to answer as many questions as needed. It was advertised on here and on Pistonheads. Had so many time wasters you would not believe.

Even had 5 people begging me to sell it to them after it went to historics !

Anyway rant over!

It was flood damaged in something like 2007 from memory (haven’t got the paperwork with me) and was never actually off the road, it was valued at £12k at the time ... yes the were worth that little.

It had new Porsche alarm / lights etc that I suspect would have been 40% of the £12k hence the write off.

As far as I can tell it never had any water in the cabin, no corroded connections all electrical work etc etc

I did the rear bumper supports, find me one that’s not had them done or doesn’t need them doing.

I put the genuine rs kit on it,genuine rs steering wheel, the wheels on, the bilstiens, upper and lower cam cover gaskets, steering rack rebuild etc etc all genuine Porsche parts.

Just had new front screen and scuttle / widescreen surround painted

If was also just fully inspected and is now down on Hpi as condition inspected, you never loose the cat c bit but it shows it had to meet rigorous standards to be given the all clear and they were very rigorous !! 4hour inspection !

Great car, drives amazingly paint not the best but a a lot of car for the money.

I had instant regret as soon as I got historics to consign it and if it doesn’t sell I will be more than happy to keep it.

Phib
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 582
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phib, many thanks for popping up to share some additional info on your Porsche, all very interesting and adding to a measure of appreciation relative to your efforts to sell it over time. From that which you type with five folk "begging" to buy it, it would seem that you can consider it as good as sold regardless of the auction process... GREAT.

I guess given it`s age, corrosion damage/repairs might be expected, perhaps more so given it was flood damaged and additionally if it was ever was owned by someone living near the sea.. though the quality of repairs can vary greatly and bodge can be relatively easily hidden under a thick coat of gunge, which makes accurate assessment of condition and repair processes utilised on old machines which are known and expected to corrode, all the harder to assess..?

I suspect most of the suspension, brakes, engine, gearbox, and electrics can indeed be assessed reasonably accurately by a marque expert, but the main structure is just that bid harder to determine even after "four hours" of looking listening and driving...? Was the assessment part of a PPI, or the DVLA requirement to allow it to be put back on the road after the flooding..?

If there have been other monocoque repairs, thinking box section rot etc.etc.etc. do you know what and where and how they were carried out and by whom, perhaps in receipt form if not pictorially..any and all of which could assist a potential buyer educate himself relative to what he was actually buying..?

It seems you must really know your way round 911 derivatives given it seems you may have owned so many, thus your 993 will hold no secrets from you..?

Of course you can just ignore my questions Phib, given your 993 is as good as sold, and I have no great expectations that you might reply.. Thanks again for taking the time to provide the heads-up worship worship Thumb
 
  
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phib
Newbie


Joined: 11 Jan 2019
Posts: 36
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has never been off the road and the inspection wasnt needed to get it back on the road.

As far as I know hasnt lived near the sea, it has no white corrosion on any of the aluminium connectors etc so doubt it has

The recent inspection (in December) was to move it from cat C - condition inspected on the HPI and to give people piece of mind when buying it, it also had an MOT with no advisories.

The inspections was far more thorough than a PPI.

There werent any chassis repairs, panel repairs. As far as I can see it has never had any crash damage or welding.

I stripped back all the crud and mud and then coated in dintrol as I intened to keep it.

I have had all the cills, bumpers, wheels etc etc off and there is no evidence of any damage. Has all engine, bonnet and under rear wing stickers in place.

At the end of the day it is a variaoram £35k 993 with hardbacks. Seems llike a bargain to me but wha do I know !!!

Who knows if it will sell !!! Just had it with timewasters.

I really dont know what customers want from a £35k 993 !!!I have to say Porsche buyers are the worst bar none, most seem to have never owned a Porsche and in my view will never own one as they are two scared to buy one.

Everyone is an expert !!

I have sold two 911's over the last 5 years, one 993 which went to auction and ended up going for more than any trade or personal bid and my old 2.7rs that porsche sold for me for way way more than I would have got for it.

Had every criticism under the sun of the value of my 2.7rs saying it would never break £1m, Porsche sold it for £1.4m in 2015

I really hope this one doesnt sell now having been out in it today and then take off the fabspeed supercups !!

Phib
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Marky911
Sepang


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2798



PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phib wrote:



I really dont know what customers want from a £35k 993 !!!I have to say Porsche buyers are the worst bar none, most seem to have never owned a Porsche and in my view will never own one as they are two scared to buy one.

Everyone is an expert !!




This x 1,000,000!!

I'm onto my 6th 911 now and buyers are in the main, total bloody nightmares.

I'll tell you what they want Phib, they want you to hold their hand and say "Don't worry, this 20 year old sports car will be nothing but perfect for the next 10 years, you won't have to spend a penny on it" and "Yes I know your wife will kill you if it goes wrong and dares to cost you anything, as you've assured her it's an investment and will only go up".

It is unreal. frustrated

Good luck at the auction. Definitely the pain-free way to do it. Thumb
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 433
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes toy with the notion of selling my 993, then I read posts such as the last two about buyers and think "keep it you fool!", so thanks chaps.

The gentleman that I sold my 997.2 to was a really lovely bloke, but a bit of a fussy buyer. For example, he was worried that the paintwork was too good (I'd detailed it with a DA polisher myself, it was as smooth as glass); "perhaps it's been in a crash?"........err no, it is just well looked after!

Then again, We Buy Any Car's whole business model is based on avoiding the great unwashed when selling, so it isn't just Porsches. I remember selling a Mini Cooper - it was mint and I'd said in the advert that I would not take any offers. Bloke offers £200 less and I say no. "Your loss, mate" he says and drives away. Two hours later he rings back and sheepishly admits that his wife has told him to come back and pay the asking price, which he did. Muppet!

But yes, selling a 20+ year old Porsche to Joe Public must be pretty damned stressful, I imagine.
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Luddite
Montreal


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 582
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phib, really did not expect you to respond to my last... THANKS. Given the advertised prices of 993, yours as you describe it seems priced to sell somewhere in the the range of the auction estimate, but as you have other buyers waiting you seem well fixed regardless of the auction outcome...GREAT.

Seems you may have sold a few cars in your time to determine that Porsche buyers are the worst..? If you had spent some time reading of some of the tales of folks experiences on here with buying process you might think a little differently given it seems the high value of Porsche has ever encouraged less than honest folk to make a few bob out of the early reputation of Porsche :-

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=133796

I have sold a few of my sports cars in my time and it is never an enjoyable process and as you typed there does seem to be rather a lot of "experts" out there who may know next to nothing, with huge expectations relative to the reality of what an old sports car might be, and in the case of an air cooled 911, perhaps more so when they compare the values to that of a brand new mid range family saloon...?

Those of us who have owned and repaired a few old sports cars can be a bit more realistic in our expectations, but given the parts cost added to the risks of Porsche repair costs that can outweigh the value of the car, I suspect seems is wise to tread warily.. unless circa £30k is the equivalent of pocket change..?

Hope all goes well at the auction. Thumb
 
  
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